Saline Posted 25 April , 2018 Share Posted 25 April , 2018 Hi, I am writing a book about the soldiers and sailors from our village who fought in WW1. I have at last found some information about one of the men ' William Scott' 29509, 1st (Garrison) Battalion, Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) whose death is recorded on the CWGC website as 1/7/1918. He is buried in Poona (St Sepulchres Cemy.). From the Long, Long Trail site I understand that the 1st Bn. were part of the 19th Brigade and in 33rd Division but can't see anywhere how the battalion got to India. For most of my other men I've been able to find our where they fought but I'm not finding much about William. Can any one help to explain why he would be in India or where I might find information? I've being looking at other posts and see that garrison battalions sometimes were populated with men who had fought in Europe or who were not 100% fit. Any help would be gratefully received, Tina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 25 April , 2018 Share Posted 25 April , 2018 The soldiers effects entry for the war gratuity is done in an odd way that I haven't seen before. (although the Indian records often are). Based on the date it was calculated, May 1919, the calculation should be made as a Type 2 - so it should be paid gross. This would indicate he had 43 months qualifying service at the time of his death. This indicates enlistment in the month from 02 December 1914. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsmith Posted 25 April , 2018 Share Posted 25 April , 2018 William had two service numbers he was originally with the 2nd Battalion Black Watch (Royal Highlanders) under the number S/7076 who were stationed in Bareilly, India at the outbreak of war. They were deployed to France in October 1915 . Here is his MIC. His service number indicates an enlistment in 1898/99 meaning he may have fought in the Boer War as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsmith Posted 25 April , 2018 Share Posted 25 April , 2018 I think I may have misinterpreted his service number S/7076 as he appears to be only 12 in 1898, if the CWGC is correct about his age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryJohn Posted 25 April , 2018 Share Posted 25 April , 2018 I'm no expert, but I believe that you are right about the constitution of garrison battalions, Tina. I don't think 1st Battalion Cameronians in 19th Brigade is the same unit as 1st (Garrison) Battalion Cameronians. CJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 25 April , 2018 Share Posted 25 April , 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, ajsmith said: I think I may have misinterpreted his service number S/7076 as he appears to be only 12 in 1898, if the CWGC is correct about his age. His war time service only started in Dec 1914 but it needs to be noted that #S/7076 as a regular was allocated in 1898 however the sequence had reached #9999 in 1904 and started again from #1. S/7263 was issued 17 Dec 1914 so, along with the war gratuity, you can place Scott's enlistment between 2 Dec and 17 Dec 1914. Craig Edited 25 April , 2018 by ss002d6252 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 25 April , 2018 Share Posted 25 April , 2018 (edited) Hi Tina, Welcome to the forum. 7 hours ago, Saline said: From the Long, Long Trail site I understand that the 1st Bn. were part of the 19th Brigade and in 33rd Division... Like CJ above, I think that the 1st Bn., and the 1st Garrison Battalion were different entities. The LLT says: 1st Garrison Battalion Formed in Hamilton in February 1916. Moved to India in the same month, where it remained. I didn't get very near his 29509 Garrison Bn number for men with surviving papers. The best I found were: 29539 Brownlie - transferred to 1/GB at Meerut 31.03.1918. 29588 Waters - transferred to 1/GB at Chakrata 24.08.1918 Regards Chris Edit: 29506 Farrell transferred to the Garrison Battalion at Meerut on 8th January 1918 Edited 25 April , 2018 by clk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 25 April , 2018 Share Posted 25 April , 2018 The FIBIS Fibiwiki page First Word War includes a section "British Army Territorial Force troops in India", which includes a section on Garrison Battalions, for general details. https://wiki.fibis.org/w/First_World_War#British_Army_Territorial_Force_troops_in_India There is possibly a death record on findmypast, but the Search is not working for me at the moment, and I can't access any Search results In 2012, the cemetery in Poona, now Pune, was very overgrown, with snakes. Some images of the cemetery 2011 https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Category:Poona_cemetery_images Cheers Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STANSGRANDS Posted 24 April , 2019 Share Posted 24 April , 2019 McKENZIE Lance Corporal 24126 Hello This my Great Grandfather he died in India my question is ,on his marrage certificate he was named Franklin Walker Mackenzie however his grave is written Frank Mckenzie would his service record be listed as F W Mackenzie or Frank McKenzie . Kind regards Richard F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 24 April , 2019 Admin Share Posted 24 April , 2019 Hi Richard I see from his MIC he was only entitled to the BWM (served overseas but not in a combat zone). As he is listed as Frank on the MIC and the CWGC it would seem reasonable to presume that is the name he served under. Sadly it does not appear as though his service record has survived (few did). Good luck with your research David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 24 April , 2019 Share Posted 24 April , 2019 (edited) Hi Richard, Unfortunately, I didn't see any service papers with either of the surname spellings, under the 24126 number. There was a 'Soldiers Died' hit under the spelling MacKenzie, which notes "FORMERLY 1604, A.G.A [sic]". Under that number there is a one page record on Findmypast under the name of Frank McKenzie, which says that his original attestation had been forwarded from RGA Records "...in consequence of his having been transferred to the 3rd Batt Black Watch with effect from 9.6.15". Regards Chris Edit: Looking at surviving papers for a couple of 1st Garrison Bn men that bracket his 24126 number: 24121 Murray was transferred to the 1st Garrison Bn from 3/Black Watch on 2.2.1916 24126 24139 Ferguson was transferred to the 1st Garrison Bn from 3/Black Watch on 2.2.1916. Embarked for India 21.2.1916 Edited 24 April , 2019 by clk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STANSGRANDS Posted 24 April , 2019 Share Posted 24 April , 2019 6 hours ago, DavidOwen said: Hi Richard I see from his MIC he was only entitled to the BWM (served overseas but not in a combat zone). As he is listed as Frank on the MIC and the CWGC it would seem reasonable to presume that is the name he served under. Sadly it does not appear as though his service record has survived (few did). Good luck with your research David Hello David we (The family )gather he died of a fever of some sort while in India I have also been told from a member of the family He was in the army until he married in 1905 then re-enlisted is this possible that he may have registered as Franklin Walker Mackenzie or is your service number permanent Kind regards Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STANSGRANDS Posted 24 April , 2019 Share Posted 24 April , 2019 6 hours ago, clk said: Hi Richard, Unfortunately, I didn't see any service papers with either of the surname spellings, under the 24126 number. There was a 'Soldiers Died' hit under the spelling MacKenzie, which notes "FORMERLY 1604, A.G.A [sic]". Under that number there is a one page record on Findmypast under the name of Frank McKenzie, which says that his original attestation had been forwarded from RGA Records "...in consequence of his having been transferred to the 3rd Batt Black Watch with effect from 9.6.15". Regards Chris Edit: Looking at surviving papers for a couple of 1st Garrison Bn men that bracket his 24126 number: 24121 Murray was transferred to the 1st Garrison Bn from 3/Black Watch on 2.2.1916 24126 24139 Ferguson was transferred to the 1st Garrison Bn from 3/Black Watch on 2.2.1916. Embarked for India 21.2.1916 Would the find my past records of Frank Mackenzie formally 1604 have any next of Kin Registered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 24 April , 2019 Admin Share Posted 24 April , 2019 15 minutes ago, STANSGRANDS said: Hello David we (The family )gather he died of a fever of some sort while in India I have also been told from a member of the family He was in the army until he married in 1905 then re-enlisted is this possible that he may have registered as Franklin Walker Mackenzie or is your service number permanent Kind regards Richard Richard It is all possible. Service numbers can change, usually when a soldier changes regiments or as a result of a renumbering exercise. Check out the Long Long Trail link above on how to research a soldier However in this case we are working with the number quoted at the time of his demise. His earlier service maybe under a different name. Experts needed to confirm. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STANSGRANDS Posted 24 April , 2019 Share Posted 24 April , 2019 1 minute ago, DavidOwen said: Richard It is all possible. Service numbers can change, usually when a soldier changes regiments or as a result of a renumbering exercise. Check out the Long Long Trail link above on how to research a soldier However in this case we are working with the number quoted at the time of his demise. His earlier service maybe under a different name. Experts needed to confirm. David My Grandfather said his Father was with the( ladies of hell or petycote ladies of hell) Which I understand was Black watch But... Canadian am I right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 24 April , 2019 Share Posted 24 April , 2019 Hi Richard, 59 minutes ago, STANSGRANDS said: we (The family )gather he died of a fever of some sort while in India A copy death certificate might clarify. You should be able to get one from the General Register Office (link). I'm not sure for overseas deaths if you can do that online, so you may have to contact them first. The record that you'd be after is indexed... Images sourced from Findmypast 1 hour ago, STANSGRANDS said: Would the find my past records of Frank Mackenzie formally 1604 have any next of Kin Registered No. It's just a receipt for the attestation. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STANSGRANDS Posted 24 April , 2019 Share Posted 24 April , 2019 Thanks Chris you have been very helpful kind regards Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 25 April , 2019 Share Posted 25 April , 2019 There is a burial record on findmypast under the name Franklin Mackenzie in the database India Office deaths, L. Cpl 1st G. B. Scottish Rifles He died 17 October 1918, and was buried 18 October 1918 at St John's Cemetery, Meerut, aged 42. The cause of death was pneumonia. Including his death, on the same register page, there are eight Army deaths in the period 17 October 1918 to 28 October 1918. The causes of death were Influenza, two; pneumonia, six. I would say almost certainly the pneumonia deaths were secondary to influenza St John's Church at Meerut is very imposing, built 1822. For images and a video, see the FIBIS Fibiwiki page Meerut https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Meerut Cheers Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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