Solving a family mystery

[Familymystery]

Hi there, I'm wondering if anyone can help me with a family mystery. I have a photo here of who I believe is to be my great-great grandfather but no-one in the family knows for certain, and no-one seems to know his name. He may even just have been a friend of a family member but seeing as the only person who could tell us died 16 years ago it's rather hard... there was a lot of family fallouts before I was born so information has been lost or withheld etc. 

 

Anyway, the only information I have is that he was in the Middlesex Regiment, and judging by the family members he knew was stationed in Medway, Kent, around January 1915. Ive had a search and believe he must have been in the reserves at the time, so 5th or 6th Battalion. That is sadly where my search ends.

 

The only other piece of clue I have is "Sparkes". I believe this to maybe be the surname but other family members believe it to be a link to his occupation (?) As electricians were nicknamed this. I don't know if that's true or not but any help would be appreciated.

Edited 18 April , 2018 by Familymystery

[Waddell]

I agree that the cap and collar badges are Middlesex regiment. (Possibly post war by the collar badges).

 

Before you research any further it would be a good idea to determine your great grandfathers name. Births, deaths, marriages records would be the place to start. Then you could search around and see if he ever served with the Middlesex regiment. Is Sparkes a family surname?

 

There are medal index cards for sixteen sparkes that served in the Middlesex regiment, but you will still need more information to go further.

 

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_fn=&_ln=sparkes&_no=&_crp=middlesex&_ttl=&discoveryCustomSearch=true&_cr1=WO+372&_dt=M&_col=200&_hb=tna

 

Scott

Edited 18 April , 2018 by Waddell
Added more.

[Familymystery]

1 minute ago, Waddell said:

I agree that the cap and collar badges are Middlesex regiment. (Possibly post war by the collar badges).

 

Before you research any further it would be a good idea to determine your great grandfathers name. Births, deaths, marriages records would be the place to start. Then you could search around and see if he ever served with the Middlesex regiment.

 

There are medal index cards for sixteen sparkes that served in the Middlesex regiment, but you will still need more information to go further.

 

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_fn=&_ln=sparkes&_no=&_crp=middlesex&_ttl=&discoveryCustomSearch=true&_cr1=WO+372&_dt=M&_col=200&_hb=tna

 

Scott

Hi Scott, that's the main problem... there don't seem to be any records that I know of in the family. There's so much we don't know, I'm starting to think it was a one night stand or worse. But, again, coukd just be a random guy we have a photo of. No-one seems to know here in my family.

 

I do have to say that my brother seems to look a tiny bit like him though. But that may be because ive been staring at the photo for hours.

 

I'll have a look at the link, thank you.

[Waddell]

You would need to start looking for birth and death records outside the family to get any further. Work back from what you know. Although from what you are saying I take it that he may not be named upon a birth certificate for other reasons.

 

I would suggest that Sparkes as a nickname to indicate that he was an electrician would be more likely to be written as 'sparks' without an e.

 

My only other suggestion is to see what service records are available for those sixteen Sparkes who served in the Middlesex regiment and see if any service record details match those dates you have around Medway in January 1915. It would be a long winded search and imprecise, but some possible candidates may emerge.

 

Scott

Edited 18 April , 2018 by Waddell
Added more.

[chaz]

Best thing is to start with yourself and any siblings then work back with what you do know...

ideal place to start is ancestry, sign up for free acces to try . You only need a trial.

you know who your parents were so that's the next line back.

presumably you don't know your grandparents?..the next line.

you then seek out parents birth certificate, should have their parents names on. This is your next line.

likewise go back to their parents same way.

 

may cost around £20-30 in certificates but should get there. If you can get back to 1911 and before, you can pick up the census reports. Every 10 years before, 1901, 1891 and 1881 should be back far enough to find his birth.

with any luck his papers may have survived, this can then be used as a cross reference, family, age, dob etc.

aditionally, 1939 head count, not actual census may help but it's not free, yet.

[Alan24]

5 hours ago, Waddell said:

. (Possibly post war by the collar badges).

.

 

I agree, the wide chin strap across the front of the cap also suggests this photo is post war.

 

Alan.

[Familymystery]

Ok so I do know my grandparents and great grandparents. However, for my great nan's birth certificate there is a total blank for the father. All I know is that her mum didn't raise her but was instead raised by her mum's aunt (? Think that's right)

 

That's why I think the soldier could possibly be her dad. Possibly kept to be given to her when she was older? It was with a portrait of her when she was 18 in 1933.

 

That being said, how old then would you say the uniform is in the original photo? As in, what year? I have no clue about this sort of thing as you can probably tell.

[Guest]

Possible great-great-grandfather gives you a maximum of 8 candidates. You may have to track the service records (if any) of all them. The most obvious question is whether the picture comes from your father or mother's family -as that will immediately reduce the maximum number to 4. You should be able to do this on Ancestry via your local library at no cost or need to obtain certificates.

    Then, Ancestry again to see  if any of the 4 possible candidates served in the Die Hards.   At present, there are a clutch of men with the surname "Sparkes" who received Great War medals for service in that regiment. There is only one Sparkes listed by Commonwealth War Graves Commission as a casualty-Private Frank Sparkes, killed in 1917 during Passendaele. His entry suggests he was from Cranleigh, near Guildford,Surrey.

   A missing great-great grandfather is a problem.  Get the above done first and then we can start to narrow down the possibilities with further suggestions.

[Familymystery]

Possible great-great-grandfather gives you a maximum of 8 candidates. You may have to track the service records (if any) of all them. The most obvious question is whether the picture comes from your father or mother's family -as that will immediately reduce the maximum number to 4. You should be able to do this on Ancestry via your local library at no cost or need to obtain certificates.

Then, Ancestry again to see  if any of the 4 possible candidates served in the Die Hards.   At present, there are a clutch of men with the surname "Sparkes" who received Great War medals for service in that regiment. There is only one Sparkes listed by Commonwealth War Graves Commission as a casualty-Private Frank Sparkes, killed in 1917 during Passendaele. His entry suggests he was from Cranleigh, near Guildford, Surrey.

A missing great-great grandfather is a problem.  Get the above done first and then we can start to narrow down the possibilities with further suggestions.

He's on my mother's side, that much I know. As for everything else... Because we don't have a name on my great nan's birth certificate that's pretty much the dead end except her middle name "Sparkes". My mum and I both have an Ancestry account but I'm just coming to dead ends. I thought I'd managed to find him until I did a bit more digging. It proved wrong.

 

If there was any way of looking at a list of the soldiers serving in the specific battalions at the time that would help hugely, if you know where I could find one. I found a simple one somewhere but it was very incomplete and the research I've done from it is so far drawing a blank. (Not sure what the website is off the top of my head. Possibly ww1photos or something like that)

 

Funnily enough this isn't even the hardest family mystery to solve. Im tempted to do the DNA just to see if that brings any matches up. But I don't see that happening somehow.

[Wexflyer]

Have you checked your great-grandmother's baptismal record, assuming there was one?

Practices may differ across denominations, but some church registers give the names of putative fathers, when civil registrations don't.

[chaz]

maybe post grandmothers name, also do you know where she was from apart from the Medway Kent area you mentioned before , bearing in mind Medway is the modern name, you would have to go back to the original 1900's names. don't suppose you know her maiden name?

[Familymystery]

On 20/04/2018 at 17:19, chaz said:

maybe post grandmothers name, also do you know where she was from apart from the Medway Kent area you mentioned before , bearing in mind Medway is the modern name, you would have to go back to the original 1900's names. don't suppose you know her maiden name?

She was born in Brompton. I'm guessing Old Brompton from her age.

 

Her name was Kathleen Sparkes Jenner and married Leonard Levy. I'm pretty sure the name on her marriage certificate for her dad it's got the Goddards on there which is the Family who brought her up.

 

I'll have to have a look at her baptismal records, not done that yet. Thanks.

[johnboy]

Is there anything onthe reverse of the pic that might give a clue as to where it was taken [photographer name and address}

[ss002d6252]

Her birth was registered in 1915 as Kathleen S Jenner.
 

The baptism record shows the mother was a single woman who lived at 8 River Street. It shows father's name as 'Beatrice Amelia' in the transcription but obviously this is the mother. The transcription shows her name as Kathleen Jenner, no middle name is noted on the transcription.
 

The baptism took place on the 31 Oct 1915 at Holy Trinity Church - date of birth was 13 Oct 1915.

Craig

Edited 22 April , 2018 by ss002d6252

[ss002d6252]

It looks to me like this may be Beatrice Amelia - born 1895 in Bompton and in 1911 was living with the family in Norfolk (father was an electrician)
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBC/1911/RG14/11549/0145/3
 

In 1917 a Beatrice A Jenner married a James Adams in Medway district so it might be worth taking a look at that marriage.

Craig

Edited 22 April , 2018 by ss002d6252

[Familymystery]

15 hours ago, ss002d6252 said:

It looks to me like this may be Beatrice Amelia - born 1895 in Bompton and in 1911 was living with the family in Norfolk (father was an electrician)
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBC/1911/RG14/11549/0145/3
 

In 1917 a Beatrice A Jenner married a James Adams in Medway district so it might be worth taking a look at that marriage.

Craig

Yeah that's the mum but from what we've found out James Adams is not Kathleens father. My mum and nan have met one of James and Amelias sons who clarified that much. Pretty sure he was the one who gave us the photo.

 

As to the reverse of the photo, because it's not the original, the only thing on the back is the date the accompanying photo of my nan was taken and the fact that the soldier was in the Middlesex Regiment.

 

I'll be back in Kent next month or so. I'll have to have a decent look at the stuff my mum has on it all. Maybe she's missed something.

 

Thank you all for helping. If I ever do find it I'll let you know. 

[Sapper 393]

On ‎19‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 15:11, Familymystery said:

Ok so I do know my grandparents and great grandparents. However, for my great nan's birth certificate there is a total blank for the father. All I know is that her mum didn't raise her but was instead raised by her mum's aunt (? Think that's right)

 

That's why I think the soldier could possibly be her dad. Possibly kept to be given to her when she was older? It was with a portrait of her when she was 18 in 1933.

 

That being said, how old then would you say the uniform is in the original photo? As in, what year? I have no clue about this sort of thing as you can probably tell.

Kathleen Sparkes JENNER, born 13th October 1915, 8 River Street Old Brompton, was brought up by her mother's aunt, Eliza Ann GODDARD nee' MOODY of 32 Westcourt Street, Old Brompton.  Her mother Beatrice Amelia JENNER did not raise her but was in regular contact with Kathleen for many years.  It is a strong possibility that the name SPARKES makes reference to the father. As Beatrice was an unmarried mother at the time, giving Kathleen a surname as a middle name, could indicate the paternity of the child, as was known in the past.

[Sapper 393]

On ‎23‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 04:10, Familymystery said:

 Yeah that's the mum but from what we've found out James Adams is not Kathleens father. My mum and nan have met one of James and Amelias sons who clarified that much. Pretty sure he was the one who gave us the photo.

 

As to the reverse of the photo, because it's not the original, the only thing on the back is the date the accompanying photo of my nan was taken and the fact that the soldier was in the Middlesex Regiment.

 

I'll be back in Kent next month or so. I'll have to have a decent look at the stuff my mum has on it all. Maybe she's missed something.

 

Thank you all for helping. If I ever do find it I'll let you know. 

James ADAMS was definitely not Kathleen's father.  Beatrice Amelia JENNER and James ADAMS married on 27th October 1917 at the parish church, Old Brompton.  He was in the Royal Navy at the time.  After a time he "disappeared", not sure of the timeline, however, Beatrice remarried in 1929.

The photograph of the mystery soldier was discovered behind the photograph of Kathleen Sparks JENNER  when repairing the broken glass in the frame.  There is no annotation on the reverse of the photograph except the photographers instruction stating "sepia".

[Sapper 393]

On ‎22‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 12:23, ss002d6252 said:

It looks to me like this may be Beatrice Amelia - born 1895 in Bompton and in 1911 was living with the family in Norfolk (father was an electrician)
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBC/1911/RG14/11549/0145/3
 

In 1917 a Beatrice A Jenner married a James Adams in Medway district so it might be worth taking a look at that marriage.

Craig

Beatrice Amelia JENNER father was ex Royal Engineers and at the time of the 1911 census he was the estate electrician looking after the generators at Raynham Hall, West Raynham.

[Familymystery]

On 23/05/2018 at 14:44, Sapper 393 said:

Kathleen Sparkes JENNER, born 13th October 1915, 8 River Street Old Brompton, was brought up by her mother's aunt, Eliza Ann GODDARD nee' MOODY of 32 Westcourt Street, Old Brompton.  Her mother Beatrice Amelia JENNER did not raise her but was in regular contact with Kathleen for many years.  It is a strong possibility that the name SPARKES makes reference to the father. As Beatrice was an unmarried mother at the time, giving Kathleen a surname as a middle name, could indicate the paternity of the child, as was known in the past.

Hi, been MIA for over a year.

 

Yes, we also believe SPARKES to be a reference to the occupation of the father, even looked into the possibility of it being the surname too. It did cross our minds that it may have been a friend, but he looks too much like my brother so has to be the father.

 

Still no closer to finding who he is name-wise, but I have done an ancestry DNA test with no luck so far. May have to get my nan to do it to help narrow down some matches 

[FROGSMILE]

The pattern (style) of cap, combined with the collar badges, indicate the photo to be taken no earlier than 1924. 

[Familymystery]

13 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

The pattern (style) of cap, combined with the collar badges, indicate the photo to be taken no earlier than 1924. 

Sonic it's not before 1924 then I highly doubt this could be my great great grandfather. It must be someone else then.

 

That makes things difficult. Thank you

[FROGSMILE]

18 minutes ago, Familymystery said:

Sonic it's not before 1924 then I highly doubt this could be my great great grandfather. It must be someone else then.

 

That makes things difficult. Thank you

It was pointed out earlier in the thread but you seemed to have missed it.  The change in style of cap and the issue of collar badges, and more tailored jackets occurred in the 1920s as a sop to respond to adverse comments about the loss of smartness since scarlet frocks were abolished.

Edited 25 November , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[travers61]

New to this thread.

 

He wears no medal ribbons, so probably did not serve overseas in WW1 & won't show on any medal index cards etc.

[Familymystery]

4 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

It was pointed out earlier in the thread but you seemed to have missed it.  The change in style of cap and the issue of collar badges, and more tailored jackets occurred in the 1920s as a sop to respond to adverse comments about the loss of smartness since scarlet frocks were abolished.

Ah, that makes sense. Yeah, obviously missed that.

 

Well, whoever he is, he must have been important seeing as he was with a photo of Beatrice.