Segregation Camp Eggbuckland Plymouth any info ?

[Uncle George]

2 hours ago, healdav said:

Pennycome quick was originally the road which ran from the roundabout up the gorge past the Post Office (still there?). The original name was Penig cwm queek, i.e. Narrow gorge creek, which that road is. The water used to come up to and past the roundabout.

Bretonside was originally where the bus station is or was. The sea used to come up to about halfway towards it. The beach extended well up the the bus station. I remember helping excavate the original beach in about 1963 when the area was not built on, and was amazed to dig down about 15/20 feet befre we found the bottom. It was a rubbish tip which still hade medieval and Tudor debris. In fact, we even found a drain down to the sea which someone had built in possibly the 16th century after digging into the rubbish tip

 

Thanks for this very interesting info. about the medieval  and Tudor debris and drain. Fascinating stuff.

 

I was telling what I remembered from Crispin Gill's 'Plymouth - a New History' (1993). I've dug it out to check. He's writing about the 1403 invasion by Breton raiders:

 

"The part the  Bretons did occupy, outside Martyn's Gate has been called Breton Side ever since (though a modern council has moved the name uphill into old Plymouth to a 'bus-station, and so confused the issue.)"

 

I've attached part of a 1763 map.

 

Gill translates Pennycomequick as, " 'at the head of the creek' in the Celtic tongue".

 

Another histrian, W. Best Harris, writes about Pennycomequick in his 'Place Names of Plymouth' (1983). It seems my memory was playing a trick. He writes about his first visit to Plymouth, and a porter at the train station giving him directions: 

 

" 'Go out of the station, turn right, and go down Pennycomequick'. I asked him what on earth Pennycomequick was and he replied that it was the name given to the hill outside the station, and the area to which it descended."

 

Harris' translation: "Pen y cwm cuig, 'where the creek meets the end of the valley' ".

 

 

 

Map from 'cyber-heritage.co.uk'

Edited 3 April , 2018 by Uncle George

[HERITAGE PLUS]

I'm not  a Devonian but the Burton Boys Pub, a corruption of Breton Boys was situated at 103-105 Exeter Street. This pub closed c.1990 and was subsequently demolished. Also known as The Young Burton Boys, it was upgraded from an alehouse in the late 19th century. Named after a local custom called Freedom Fighting when schoolboys from Old Town and Breton reenacted the Breton raids of the 15th century.   Dave

Edited 3 April , 2018 by HERITAGE PLUS
Photo added

[Uncle George]

44 minutes ago, HERITAGE PLUS said:

I'm not  a Devonian but the Burton Boys Pub, a corruption of Breton Boys was situated at 103-105 Exeter Street. This pub closed c.1990 and was subsequently demolished. Also known as The Young Burton Boys, it was upgraded from an alehouse in the late 19th century. Named after a local custom called Freedom Fighting when schoolboys from Old Town and Breton reenacted the Breton raids of the 15th century.   Dave

 

 

Thanks for this - I remember this pub (but never went into it).

 

But to steer the thread back toward beestonboxer's captivating subject. It may be worth mentioning that Eggbuckland (and Crownhill for that matter) was not part of Plymouth until 1938 (Lady Mary's envelope notwithstanding). Map from Gill (op. cit.):

 

 

Edited 3 April , 2018 by Uncle George

[Guest]

Some information that might assist, based on Boldero's officer file at Kew.  Quite old by the time war came- born 1883, occupation given as planter. He had served 1902-1908 in militia up to Captain. Much of his officer file is concerned with his claims for the permanent rank of Major- he was a Brevet Major for most of the time.

 

     He was granted the temporary rank of Major  in respect of  being DAQMG from 25th February 1918 to 14th October 1918. He claimed pay as a Major at Indian Army rates of pay, which was accorded to him at the request of the India Office-and gazetted,it seems, retrospectively on 20th July 1921.

     His DAQMG pops up for an earlier period-  6th March 1917- 6th July 1917- rated thus for acting as an Embarkation Officer.

       At some point he served in  Mesopotamia and also in the Archangel Expedition.

 

     It looks like he was basically an Embarkation Officer for much,if not all of the  Great War.  Thus, Eggbuckland as a segregation camp may be a sealed camp for those going off to the Middle East-  or perhaps for Indian troops coming in-    the extra pay through the India Office request and his occupation as "planter" suggest he may have had expere of the Raj and maybe  it's languages- Only the rest of Boldero's papers will tell.

     Whether Indian troops at Plymouth is recorded or not may need some keen eyes on the Western Morning News.

 

(Burton Boys- rubbish pub. Had a very bad reputation  for rough types and trouble)     

[beestonboxer]

Thanks for all the input it is still a little cloudy but slowly becoming clearer. He was indeed a planter from information gathered from photo albums it seems he spent a lot of time in Fiji , he was also serving in the Northern Territories Constabulary Mounted Infantry. He also was officer in charge at some point of the Rehabilitation Centre at Shotley Bridge I have a photo somewhere of him at the centre and I believe a report of the good work carried out there.

[beestonboxer]

Family papers have the following information written as seen.

Major Guy Boldero was a soldier and a keen sportsman. He was educated at Tonbridge School in Kent and also went to the Royal Naval School, Eltham  where he won a music prize for the violin. At 19 he joined the 4th Battalion Somerset Light Infantry and became an officer in 1907. Guy became an instructor at the Military School of Army Signals.

He was seconded under the colonial Office from December 1908 to 1911 for " Colonial Military Employment" in the Fiji islands. Later for 3 years he became an assistant manager of a coconut plantation.

At the outbreak of the first world war he was re-called to the army and was attached to the Dorset Regiment and was sent to Mesopotamia. There with General Townshends forces they fought to relieve Baghdad. They encountered a large Turkish force, after heavy fighting they had to retreat to Kut . Guy was wounded and narrowly escaped being taken prisoner. Luckily he managed to be put aboard a river steamer retreating down the Euphrates. After his recovery he served as a member of the embarkation staff at Basra. Afterwards in 1919 he served in Russia on the Expeditionary Force under General Ironside at Archangel.

Returning home he was in charge of homes for disabled soldiers at Exeter , Bristol and Shotley Bridge Durham. A quotation from the list of inspectors who inspected the hospital at Shotley Bridge runs as follows-- " last week , for the first time we had the pleasure of paying a visit to the ministry of pensions hospital at Shotley Bridge. We were very impressed with everything we saw especially the mens display of beautiful articles made in the workshops. The result of the mens effort reflected great credit upon Major Boldero and his officers and his technical assistants." there were 250 men in the hospital.

[Guest]

   The notes (effectively a summary) of Boldero's papers in the IWM show the following:

 

Papers relating to his service in Mesopotamia, comprising 2 orders issued in India, May - June 1915, instructing him to join the 2nd Battalion Dorsetshire Regiment (6th Poona Division), an ms transcription (8pp) of an order issued to the 6th Division on 13 November 1915 by its GOC, Major General C V F (later Sir Charles) Townshend, at the start of his attempted advance on Baghdad congratulating them on their performance to date, the 'BASRAH TIMES' (2 June 1916), a card for the 'Basrah Races' (10 November 1917) and a map of the waterfront at Basra showing where he was billeted 1916 - 1917, together with items relating to his later service in North Russia as Embarkation Staff Officer at Bakaritza including 2 speeches welcoming the British force to Archangel in May 1919, a ts report (3pp) on his activities at Bakaritza, June - August 1919, ts orders for the evacuation of British troops from Archangel in September 1919, a humorous menu signed by other officers, an ms order from the Russian Base Commandant outlining the terms of a curfew in Bakaritza and a playbill for a performance by the 'Morse-Key-Toes' (? July 1918)

(Reproduced from IWM website, with thanks, as "fair use")

 

   Thus, it seems he was an Embarkation Officer at Basrah, at home and at Archangel-from this and previous post. Looks like Eggbuckland was a an embarkation sealed camp even more.

Edited 3 April , 2018 by Guest

[seaJane]

In Boldero's papers at IWM is a picture of COMET which I would love to see but (despite working for the RN) they will not send me a scan... Ah well.

[Guest]

Hi, I am wondering if it was actually Widey Manor - which used as a hospital during its history. Widey is within Eggbuckland and is now the site of a school.

It was used during historical battles - such as Freedom Fields.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Widey+Court+Primary+School/@50.4045897,-4.1303725,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x486ced25ba6a9975:0x8af89803c2a41e2b!8m2!3d50.4045897!4d-4.1281838

 

[healdav]

2 hours ago, treegray said:

Hi, I am wondering if it was actually Widey Manor - which used as a hospital during its history. Widey is within Eggbuckland and is now the site of a school.

It was used during historical battles - such as Freedom Fields.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Widey+Court+Primary+School/@50.4045897,-4.1303725,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x486ced25ba6a9975:0x8af89803c2a41e2b!8m2!3d50.4045897!4d-4.1281838

 

Surely Eggbuckland Fort would be the obvious place. It was well and truly obsolete by WW1, but completely intact, as it is today, and had a lot of accommodation, parade ground, etc. etc.