THOMAS WILLIAM OATWAY, CSM, 1st COLDSTREAM GUARDS

[Guest]

    Post removed by me. MJT

 

 

 

Edited 15 February , 2020 by Guest

[Coldstreamer]

My notes have him as a Drill Sergeant and not CSM 

Edited 30 March , 2018 by Coldstreamer

[DavidOwen]

CWGC has him as CSM,  TNA MIC as WO2. Ancestry's Soldiers Died has him as Drill Sergeant,  but Soldier's effects as CSM

Would a drill sergeant be WO2? Would a CSM be WO1?

Looks like he could be a mystery in that department!

Still nice to see him honoured whatever he was.

David

 

Just had a closer look at the MIC courtesy of Ancestry's free weekend - seems he was a Drill Sergeant but promoted to WO2

Edited 30 March , 2018 by DavidOwen

[Guest]

  Hi Coldstreamer-  Likewise I have  reference to him as a Drill Sergeant- not the least being Ponsonby's  diary entry of Oatway being killed.  Oatway is listed as a CSM on CWGC- . OK -not 100%  accurate as we know.   The CWGC site also has the draft panel lists for the La Ferte memorial against his entry- and I felt that it would thus be unlikely to be wrong, as I felt sure the panel list would have been run past the Coldstream Guards for accuracy.

      Soldier's Effects has him as a CSM-   in the absence of a "Burnt Document"  service file, then I usually prefer the rank given in SE.  This is invariably taken from the lost files and in my experience is invariably accurate.  There were many men of the Great war who died doing jobs  at a higher level of responsibilty  but who were killed before the paperwork fully caught up with it. 

      His rank is not given on my local war memorial in Wanstead but I have not seen any Guards memorials that might  give details.  That will be for better weather.

[TwoEssGee]

Surely his official rank was Company Sergeant Major, and his appointed rank was Drill Sergeant.

Each Guards Battalion appoints two Company Sergeant Majors as D/Sgt's  and nowadays are WOII rank, but I don't think the WOII rank existed in 1914.

In the battalion hierarchy (descending order) there is one Regimental Sergeant Major, two Drill Sergeants and numerous Company Sergeant Majors.

 

[Coldstreamer]

Coldstream casualties papers wont be found anywhere but with RHQ in London - dont know if the copies all got burnt or if they never left RHQ?

 

Looking at another casualty whose papers I have, A /D/Sgt Black, his papers show CSM then A/D Sgt  - I took it a was acting rather than what might be appointment - he is CSM on CWGC and the war diary records him as Drill Sergeant when he died

Edited 31 March , 2018 by Coldstreamer

[ss002d6252]

The KR 1914 in respect of foot guard drill serjeants - first amongst equals for CSM's.

Craig

[MGWP]

In the matter of Thomas William Oatway, a researcher (TJ) recently discovered his name on a gravestone in Rayleigh Cemetery, Essex (Plot D.45) "Thomas W Oatway Drill Sgt 1st Bn Coldstream Gds. ???? at the Battle of Aisne Sept 14 1914 Aged 36." Not a CWGC maintained grave.

 

This is an addition to the  inscriptions on the gravestone of Elizabeth and Joseph Alfred Lane (it is believed that Elizabeth is Joseph's mother). It seems quite odd that his name should appear on a grave when I can find no apparent familial connection, until Ponsoby's diary entry is read: “We reached a brick wall round the factory. I saw then that Grenville Smith was wounded, also Lane. Drill Sergeant Oatway fell and I believe was killed outright.”

 

Question: Who was Lane? (No masonic references found for Comrades Lodge No. 2740, of which Thomas was a member).

[Guest]

Good evening MGWP,

     Wow-that came out of the blue down the other end of Essex!!   Thank you very much for putting it up on GWF.

 

 

I enclose a draft of my roll for Wanstead-  Tom Oatway married into the Lane family in 1904. A zap of the Essex Record Office stuff on Ancestry the morrow should sort out the relationship.

(Still waiting to get a pic. of him from a family member!!) Also, I think the Lane referred to in Ponsonby's diary is a fellow officer of the Coldstream Guards- Coldstreamer will comment on that one I hope.  The body of Tom Oatway was not recovered in France and the mention of his name with other family members is the common practice-though not that much studied- of remembering men,  especially with no known grave in France, etc, as a mention on a proper family grave

 

OATWAY,  THOMAS  WILLIAM

Company Sergeant-Major  1486, 1^st. Battalion, The  Coldstream Guards

Killed in action, Battle of the Aisne, 14^th September 1914

 Thomas William Oatway was born at Aldershot  on 15^th May 1879 while his father was serving in the 1^st Dragoon Guards. He was baptised at the Garrison Church on 7^th June 1879.He was known to his family as Tom. The Oatways were originally a Devonshire family, from the neighbourhood of Exeter, and Thomas’s grandparents of that name, James and Elizabeth, had migrated to London, where James  worked as a carpenter in Bethnal Green. Their son, also Thomas Oatway, born in 1840, had enlisted for 12 years in the Dragoon Guards in January 1860, having tired of being a brassfounder. A cavalry regiment, almost superfluous after the disasters of the Crimean War, it meant that Thomas Oatway never served outside Great Britain, served in no campaigns-and never rose beyond the rank of Private, although he did win 4 good conduct badges and the resultant small pay increases.

     What brought Thomas Oatway to Wanstead was marrying a local girl, Ann Davis, in Wanstead on 30^th  December  1868. That 2 of their children were born in Scotland (James) and Ireland (Anne) showed the humdrum life of home postings and the poor life of an army couple. Thomas completed his army service of 21 years for pension in January 1881 and subsequently worked as a coachman and domestic servant in Wanstead. The 1881 Census shows the family at 4 Tylney Cottages, George Lane. Thomas William Oatway attended Wanstead Church School and was for many years a chorister at Christ Church, Wanstead. The Census of  1891 shows Thomas William working as a domestic servant at 24 Grove Road. By the years before the war, the Oatways were a numerous and popular local family, ruled over by Annie Oatway who lived for many years at 5 Wellington Road and died in August 1914.

It is not known whether Thomas William continued for long as a domestic servant but his service number indicates that he volunteered for the 1^st Battalion Coldstream Guards  at Stratford sometime in 1897, almost certainly as soon as he reached his eighteenth birthday. The Guards regiments, then as now, were an elite, performing  their traditional ceremonial roles yet maintaining their high reputation for military professionalism and efficiency. Thomas William fitted well into this regime-  he served with the battalion in the Boer War, arriving in South Africa on the 28^th October 1899  He took part in serious battles against the Boers  in 1899-1900 at Belmont and the Modder River- a serious British defeat in “Black Week” in December 1899. By the end of February 1900 he was in action against the Boers at Paardeberg, where Lord Roberts pinned the better part of the Boer forces against the Basuto Mountains and forced the  surrender of General Piet Cronje. He received a bar to his Queens South Africa Medal for this and Driefontein. Thomas Oatway’s bar for Driefontein shows that he served all through Lord Roberts’ advance into the Boer Republics, Driefontein being the last Boer defensive line before the British captured Bloemfontein, the capital of the Orange Free State in June 1900. In July 1900 he was invalided home- the Boer War was noted for more sickness casualties than battle casualties. By the 1901 Census he was in barracks in Orange Street, just behind Leicester Square, already  a Lance Corporal after some 3 years of service - someone clearly of ability  and marked out for promotion to be a senior NCO.

In the Spring of 1904 , with a secure soldiering future ahead of him, he married in Wanstead,  Emily Edith Lane, who hailed from Stapleford Abbots and had been working as a domestic servant in Wandsworth. Their marriage produced 3 sons by the 1911 Census, Thomas Noel, James Albert and William Alfred. The first, Thomas Noel Oatway was born in Wanstead on Christmas Eve 1904 and baptised at St. Mary’s on 5^th March 1905.  ( The entry in the Register of Baptisms lists  Thomas William Otway as a clerk, so it is possible that he had left the army on marriage and later re-enlisted) The 1911 Census showed Thomas William Oatway as a Drill Sergeant based in Windsor,   while his wife and family were nearby in army married quarters. He was also inducted into the freemasons lodge, Comrades 2740-a lodge founded in 1899 and specifically for guardsmen NCOs, on 11^th April 1913.

When war came, the 1^st Coldstream Guards were part of the 1st (Guards) Brigade of the 1st Division  and immediately ready for foreign service-landing at Le Havre on 13^th August 1914, only 9 days after war was declared. It is probable that Thomas William Oatway was advanced to Company Sergeant Major as the battalion moved off to France. The 1^st Coldtreams  spent the first month of their service in France retreating southward in the face of the overwhelming German swing towards Paris.  It first engaged the germans at Nesles on 6^th September when halted from marching as a rearguard of the 15^th Hussars reported that the Germans were coming.The  victory of the Allies at the Marne, which saved Paris, left many British units in unexpected positions north of Paris. Thus, when the British and  French counterattacked the Germans early in September 1914, the battalion was in the Laonais, the area around Laon, northeast of Paris and close to Rheims.

The Laonais is a hilly and heavily wooded area and the Germans held a good defensive line, the high ridge known as the Chemin des Dames. The centrepoint of this defensive line was an old sugar factory (La Sucrerie) at Cerny en Laonois, latterly producing not sugar but industrial alcohol. It sat atop the ridge, walled and with a high chimney that gave the Germans additional advantages for artillery spotting. As a redoubt it was heavily defended by the Germans-by 3 German battalions (16^th Reserve, 39^th Fusilier and 53^rd Reserve), as well as 2 artillery batteries and numerous machine guns. In addition, the Gemans had 4  11” howitzers sited further back. These positions had to be taken and on the morning of 14th September 1st Coldstream Guards were ordered to take part in an attack, coming at it from the south in support of other battalions already finding it hard going against heavy artillery and small arms fire.

1st Coldstreams advanced on the factory through woods, 2 companies forming a front line, the other 2 in support, in short rushes but incurred heavy losses- the War Graves Commission records 69 dead for the day, while the battalion war diary records 162 Other Ranks as missing. During the action, the battalion split and became separated. The main part retreated as units either side retired as well in the face of German strength. Tom Oatway was one of a separate party of about 150 men led by Lt Col. John Ponsonby As the battalion reached the walls of the factory, Thomas William Oatway was hit and died instantly. His end was noted in the diary of Lt-Col. Ponsonby:

“We reached a brick wall round the factory. I saw then that Grenville Smith was wounded, also Lane. Drill Sergeant Oatway fell and I believe was killed outright.”

   Thomas William Oatway’s body was not recovered for burial, even though the British stormed and captured La Surcrerie. Once lost, the Germans put in an intense artillery barrage to destroy the factory and prevent the British using it for observation. It is likely that his body was destroyed in this shelling. He was awarded the British War and Victory medals, and the 1914 Star with clasp, for having been under fire. He is remembered on the memorial to the missing at La Ferte sous Jouarre, along with 46 other Coldstreamers  killed that day. He is remembered on the Wanstead War Memorial, on that for the Parishioners of St. John’s, Westminster in Smith Square, Westminster and at St. Philip with St.Bartholemew’s Church in St.Philip Square, Battersea

War Diary 1 Coldstream Guards, 1^st August 1914-31^st July 1915,  WO 95/1263/1, The National Archives;  Kendall, Paul: Aisne 1914:The Dawn of Trench Warfare (Stroud,2012)

 

 

 

Edited 14 February , 2021 by Guest

[TwoEssGee]

2 hours ago, MGWP said:

Question: Who was Lane? (No masonic references found for Comrades Lodge No. 2740, of which Thomas was a member).

Could it have been Capt George Ronald Lane who was killed in action almost exactly 2 years later, on 15 Sept 1916 while serving with the 2nd Battalion?

His CWGC entry mentions that he was previously wounded in 1914.  

A trawl through the diaries or the CG official history should confirm if it was him and what rank he was in 1914.

Edited 14 February , 2021 by TwoEssGee

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, TwoEssGee said:

Could it have been Capt George Ronald Lane who was killed in action almost exactly 2 years later, on 15 Sept 1916 while serving with the 2nd Battalion?

His CWGC entry mentions that he was previously wounded in 1914.  

A trawl through the diaries or the CG official history should confirm if it was him and what rank he was in 1914.

 

    I thin that is very likely- I can check that against the Army Lists on archive.org. Come to thin of it, I have the war diary here-might check that as well!!

[tullybrone]

 

You say above............”When war came, the 1st Coldstream Guards were part of the Guards Division and immediately ready for foreign service-landing at Le Havre on 13th August 1914.”

 

1st CG were not part of Guards Division in August 1914 as it wasn’t created until the following year. 1st CG went to France as part of 1st Division. 
 

Steve
 

 

[Guest]

On 14/02/2021 at 21:57, tullybrone said:

 

You say above............”When war came, the 1st Coldstream Guards were part of the Guards Division and immediately ready for foreign service-landing at Le Havre on 13th August 1914.”

 

1st CG were not part of Guards Division in August 1914 as it wasn’t created until the following year. 1st CG went to France as part of 1st Division. 
 

Steve
 

 

 

    Thanks Steve- Thank God its a draft-  Will be corrected immediately- I remember writing that after I was discussing Arnhem in WW2 where my dad served- and came out with a less than printable view of the Guards Armoured Division!

 

* Corrected-  I often wondered if there was a difference between a brigade and a division........

[MGWP]

On 14/02/2021 at 21:37, TwoEssGee said:

Could it have been Capt George Ronald Lane who was killed in action almost exactly 2 years later, on 15 Sept 1916 while serving with the 2nd Battalion?

His CWGC entry mentions that he was previously wounded in 1914.  

A trawl through the diaries or the CG official history should confirm if it was him and what rank he was in 1914.

 

Good evening MGWP,

     Wow-that came out of the blue down the other end of Essex!!   Thank you very much for putting it up on GWF.

 

OATWAY,  THOMAS  WILLIAM

"In the Spring of 1904 , with a secure soldiering future ahead of him, he married in Wanstead,  Emily Edith Lane, who hailed from Stapleford Abbots and had been working as a domestic servant in Wandsworth."

Thank you GUEST (excellent biography), TwoEssGee and tullybrone for the additional detail. 'Lane' had been staring me in the face all along but didn't see it. I had been thinking on the lines that one of Oatway's sisters had married a Lane, and that particular Lane was the one he was fighting alongside. I see now Joseph Lane was Emily's father, so at the grave of her mother and father, she saw fit to commemorate their son-in-law and her husband (and rightly so).  It doesn't appear that Lane (perhaps Capt. George R. Lane at Vendresse) was a relation to Oatway's wife, just fortuitous to this line of investigation.

 

 

[Guest]

Thanks MGWP for the update re. Lane Family and who is who- I will run it against Ancestry and amend my stuff again later today. Nowadays, I try to add a little about the wife's family, if there is a wife but had not yet done so for Tom Oatway.  Although the wife was born in Stapleford Abbots, the family grave in Rayleigh is no surprise. For my casualties at the Wanstead end of Essex, there are 2 clear trends of incomers- those making good from the inner East End and moving out-and those -mostly agricultural-who come in on the  back of the agricultural depressions of the 1870s and 1880s. But there is an outward trend in the parental generation above the casualties as well- Many keep moving east to the Essex Riviera () as they got older and retired.  

     Keep looking and trudging!!   Memorials out of area only pop up by flukes such as this

 

[Coldstreamer]

Lanes medals were recently sold at DNW

[Guest]

Thanks Coldstreamer. As a curiosity, would you know if Oatway's medals have ever come up anywhere?

And if I can pick your brains a little further- would his name have been up in the Guards Chapel destroyed in WW2?   

Edited 15 February , 2021 by Guest