How common was it for troops to wear their enemy's helmets in battle?

[Jools mckenna]

I was looking through a book on the somme and I saw some German pows wearing brodies and also saw a British officer wearing a m16. Just would like to know how common that was in the Great war in general.

Edited 24 March , 2018 by Jools mckenna

[Wexflyer]

In battle, literally?  Would have thought that incredibly dangerous!

[Jools mckenna]

5 minutes ago, Wexflyer said:

In battle, literally?  Would have thought that incredibly dangerous!

I thought that as well but that's what the photos show

 

 

 

Edited 24 March , 2018 by Jools mckenna

[Wexflyer]

2 minutes ago, Jools mckenna said:

I thought that as well but that's what the photos show

 

 

 

But are the photos of rear areas, or "in battle"? - I think  the latter are rare. Most photos are of the aftermath, or a rear area.

Edited 24 March , 2018 by Wexflyer

[Moonraker]

I agree with Wexflyer's comments. But surely not too uncommon to pose for pics behind the lines wearing "trophy" helmets retrieved from the battlefield or "borrowed" from prisoners.

 

Pity we can't see the photo.

 

Moonraker

[Jools mckenna]

5 minutes ago, Wexflyer said:

But are the photos of rear areas, or "in battle"? - I think  the latter are rare. Most photos are of the aftermath, or a rear area.

well the photo shows German pows captured by the Canadians. I'm assuming they were wearing the brodies when captured

2 minutes ago, Moonraker said:

I agree with Wexflyer's comments. But surely not too uncommon to pose for pics behind the lines wearing "trophy" helmets retrieved from the battlefield or "borrowed" from prisoners.

 

Pity we can't see the photo.

 

Moonraker

I have just took a photo of a photo to show to you, kind sir.

[Jools mckenna]

Here is the photo of the British officer wearing a m16. The caption says "a British officer watches as German trenches near Leuze woods are shelled.

[4thGordons]

What is the book, please?

 

Chris

[Beechhill]

As to the prisoners, I'd imagine there would be an incentive to pick up any helmet if the prisoner had lost his own or only had a Feldmütze, at least until they were out of the danger zone. Being taken prisoner and rounded up near the line did not mean being in the clear of bullets or artillery. 

The officer may have worn a German helmet as an anti sniper device, hoping the enemy would be less inclined to fire while he had his head above the parapet. 

/Dan 

Edited 25 March , 2018 by Beechhill

[Jools mckenna]

3 hours ago, Beechhill said:

As to the prisoners, I'd imagine there would be an incentive to pick up any helmet if the prisoner had lost his own or only had a Feldmütze, at least until they were out of the danger zone. Being taken prisoner and rounded up near the line did not mean being in the clear of bullets or artillery. 

The officer may have worn a German helmet as an anti sniper device, hoping the enemy would be less inclined to fire while he had his head above the parapet. 

/Dan 

I agree with you on the British officer but you would think it would be to much hassle the supply pows helmets. I've heard in 1916 when the m16 came out, only fresh recruits got helmets while the veterans got nothing until till 1917-18. So maybe these germans put on these helmet to protect themselves in battle but they could have been shot by friendlys if wearing a enemy helmet. also the Canadians aren't going to stop to allow the Germans to pick up helmets.

 

Jools

Edited 25 March , 2018 by Jools mckenna

[Jools mckenna]

9 hours ago, 4thGordons said:

What is the book, please?

 

Chris

Hi Chris, it's the 'Somme' by Atlantic publishing.

Edited 25 March , 2018 by Jools mckenna

[Jools mckenna]

Quick update, the pows photo was took near Courcelette.

[Beechhill]

1 hour ago, Jools mckenna said:

I agree with you on the British officer but you would think it would be to much hassle the supply pows helmets. I've heard in 1916 when the m16 came out, only fresh recruits got helmets while the veterans got nothing until till 1917-18. So maybe these germans put on these helmet to protect themselves in battle but they could have been shot by friendlys if wearing a enemy helmet. also the Canadians aren't going to stop to allow the Germans to pick up helmets.

 

Jools

Sorry if my post was unclear. My assumption was that the prisoners had picked up the helmets after their surrender, so not having worn them in battle. But my impression of battlefields being over strewn with all kinds of kit and gear may of course be very exaggerated. 

[Jools mckenna]

1 hour ago, Beechhill said:

 Sorry if my post was unclear. My assumption was that the prisoners had picked up the helmets after their surrender, so not having worn them in battle. But my impression of battlefields being over strewn with all kinds of kit and gear may of course be very exaggerated. 

I realized that after (which my fault as I didn't read your post properly) 4 lines and wrote 'also the Canadians aren't going to stop to allow the Germans to pick up helmets' or something like that.

[Beechhill]

5 hours ago, Jools mckenna said:

I realized that after (which my fault as I didn't read your post properly) 4 lines and wrote 'also the Canadians aren't going to stop to allow the Germans to pick up helmets' or something like that.

You may have a point, although I don't imagine marching prisoners to the rear would be a sprinting event. Especially not in the trenches. So unless the guards took offense to POW's picking up a helmet, I wouldn't expect that to be a feat in itself. 

[Jools mckenna]

1 hour ago, Beechhill said:

You may have a point, although I don't imagine marching prisoners to the rear would be a sprinting event. Especially not in the trenches. So unless the guards took offense to POW's picking up a helmet, I wouldn't expect that to be a feat in itself. 

The trench pictured is apparently a communication trench so they are being marched to the reserve trench then to HQ, just to give you more info. But back to the point I don't think helmets are going to scatted around for the Germans to simply pick up helmets they would have to remove it of a body ,most likely, and don't think the guard would take that lightly also if they just picking helmets of the f;our the leather liner would be knacked.

Edited 25 March , 2018 by Jools mckenna

[Derek Black]

PoW's picking up souvenirs shortly after capture, seem to me unlikely.

 

Derek.

[ben99]

The German M16 helmet was not individually issued, but formed part of "trench stores". There are various mentions of captured equipment (especially boots, waterproofs etc) being adopted by the Germans. 

British, Dominion and US troops were issued individually starting with the newly-raised "Kitchener Army"..

Both sides conducted trench raiding on quite a large scale. German troops were always interested in British supply dumps encountered during operations, British troops would usually simply destroy Gernan dumps without much investigation. 

There are also pictures of British troops taken during the Hundred Days (notably the picture at the Canal du Nord) in which British troops are obviously wearing souvenirs taken from PoW.

[trenchtrotter]

2 hours ago, ben99 said:

The German M16 helmet was not individually issued, but formed part of "trench stores". There are various mentions of captured equipment (especially boots, waterproofs etc) being adopted by the Germans. 

British, Dominion and US troops were issued individually starting with the newly-raised "Kitchener Army"..

Both sides conducted trench raiding on quite a large scale. German troops were always interested in British supply dumps encountered during operations, British troops would usually simply destroy Gernan dumps without much investigation. 

There are also pictures of British troops taken during the Hundred Days (notably the picture at the Canal du Nord) in which British troops are obviously wearing souvenirs taken from PoW.

German helmets were individually issued but just like the British in the early stages when production was slow and not matching needs then they were "trench stores" By summer of 1916 very much an individual issued item of kit.