A "good" British Regiment

[Guest scott leader]

This as been bugging me for a while.

I know that we all have or own "Division "Regiment or "Battalions, etc that we collect to, sometimes when offered medals for the correct topic, that looks right theirs something not quite right, what I mean is I for one have seen group turned down because the buyers dosen't think that the regiment in question is -a "good"one??

So from that I would say that a good one was, "heavily involved in the fighting" throught 1914-18, had many KIA's, Major actions, etc.

Below are a few regiments in question that need your opinions on.

"Good" or "Not"? & reasons

Bedfordshire

Kings Royal Rifle Corps

Rifle Brigade

Northumberland Fusiliers

Border Regiment

East Lancashire Regiment

Royal Fusiliers

[Neil Burns]

Hi Scott,

This enters the psychology of collecting sphere. Often units with just as good combat records simply don't grab the attention of collectors.

For the KRRC and the Rifle Brigade I think this is due to the fact there is no regional affiliation to appeal to (same for RE and RA).

I notice here in the US I often see Manchester and Liverpool Regiment items going for low prices; I certainly don't think the prices reflect the service of the regiments.

It's just one of those quirks.

How's that for a non-answer?

Neil

[Derek Robertson]

How's that for a non-answer?

The generally low prices for Northumberland Fusilier medals has puzzled me for a long time and I can't explain it.

The Border Regiment is another in question. I've seen several groups go relatively cheaply but also I've seen a 1st July Lonsdale battalion trio require a hefty second mortgage to even consider purchasing.

How's that for another non-answer?

[Neil Burns]

Hi Derek,

I should also include the Northumberland Fusiliers as a relatively unpopular regiment here in the states.

As you state for no good reason.

Take care,

Neil

[Terry]

Neil and Derek have said it all - the whole question of what a "good" regiment was really defies logic. At one point I thought that perhaps it was the snob appeal of the Guards or cavalry, but there is more to it than that.

Units like the Northumberland Fusiliers, the Suffolks, Hampshires,etc., who really formed the backbone of the BEF, just do not seem to attract as much interest as the Coldstreams or the Grenadiers. Similarly, I have discussed before the attraction of Canadian collectors for the Patricias ahead of the numbered units which had very distinguished war records. Makes no sense, but there it is.

[Old Tom]

Hello,

I think the term 'good regiment' has more to do with social status in peace rather than reputation in action. The saying that the cavalry are only there 'To add tone to what would otherwise be a sordid affair' may be relevant. The KRRC (60th Rifles) have an interesting backgound having been raised in the USA, their dark green uniform and black buttons were distinctive. On the other hand for years many of the most senior army appointments have been held by officers who started their careers in cavalry, guards, green jackets etc.

Old Tom

[channelhopper]

I'm puzzled that you seem to think the Northumberland Fusiliers are an unpopular regiment. This may be correct in the U.S. but it's far from the truth in the UK.

I accept that the majority of the enthusiasts may live in the North East just as the majority who have an interest in the London Regiment will likely reside in the South.

There are websites to the 4th Bn, 7th Bn and also to the Tyneside Scottish and Irish Battalions. In addition our very own Kate a pal on this list is a big fan/researcher of the 6th Bn.

Sorry your facts are incorrect there is a big following, check NF 's on a search engine you will be surprised.

If there are any cheap medals to the Northumberlands in the U.S. please let me know.

Thanks

Peter

[T8HANTS]

Yes Socially the Rifle Regiments and Fusliers are a cut above the Infantry of the Line, or "County regiments", but not as high as the Guards. Why some of the more northern Regiments are less popular I can't think, fewer collectors up that part of the world perhaps. How many battalions did each county regiment raise compared to the Guards, are they just too common for high prices with no added glamour. Cunning Plan collect them all now while they are second rate.

[Staffsyeoman]

This has mined a source of psychology! Heavens! For my money, Tom has it - the 'good regiment' is more a peacetime social status thing (unless you're the Corps commander in the field and it turns on its head!).

And as for 'cheaper' NF medals - as Peter says, the Tyneside 'ethnics' (if that doesn't sound P 'INC'..) have always been followed. I have this mental image of Tynesider collectors, like HG Wells' Martians, 'slowly, but surely laying their plans against....' saving many pennies and getting over to the US this summer to hoover them up!

Joking apart - they've never been 'cheap' in the mainstream. But all is relative; I picked up a number of NZ Machine Gun Corps items in Australia three years ago - from dealers - at prices that made me think I'd better leave the country before they realised their mistake. The mysteries of the market.

[Neil Burns]

Hi Guys,

Sorry can't really account for it but I know what I see!

At this point I refer you to the US ebay, insuring no NF medal will ever sell for less than 6 times it's value before I posted this.

Take care,

Neil

[birkettm]

the Tyneside 'ethnics'

Thats geordies to you pal

Echoing sentiments already posted i will gladly take ownership of cheap medals to the Northumberland Fusiliers! Whats the price of importing from the US via ebay???

Also noticed the Kings Royal Rifle Corp (60th American Rifles) and the Rifle Brigade (95th Rifles) on that list, which suprised me considering the history of both regiments. They were of course the first two rifle regiments in the British Army and the mainstays of Wellingtons Light Division.

They have since amalgamated to form the Royal Greenjackets which is also a regiment which i was under the impression to be held in high esteem.

In my experince i have never noticed medals to any three of these regiments to go particularly cheap. I have been noticing pairs to the KRRC on ebay going for £40 which is certainly the going rate if not over.

[stiletto_33853]

If peacetime social status defines a good regiment, then why are such regiments as the Rifle Brigade, K.R.R.C. unpopular in the US. Heaven knows their ranks were full of the Rt. Hon. such and such, Sir so and so and Lord whats his name besides being recognised at the time as being one of the "better regiments".

When we look at WW1 their are not too many regiments with so many honours awarded and when you consider the history of these regiments there are few too equal them, although older.

If local affiliations are to be considered as voiced, lets take my town memorial just for an example. On the main town memorial, not taking into account the outlying areas that have now been swallowed up as it has grown, their are 1149 names recorded of which some 132 are with the local regiment. Although this does not discount this theory totally it gives you an impression of local affiliations.

Agreed their were no county affiliations to these two regiments in particular, but with only just over 10% in the local county regiment is this pertinent in the case of WW1.

I see your point though, but is this just one of those strange anomolies from the US market, heaven knows there seem to be enough of them.

Just some thoughts there.

Andy

[Derek Robertson]

I'm puzzled that you seem to think the Northumberland Fusiliers are an unpopular regiment.

No, I said that in my experience Northumberland Fusilier medals sell for less than the norm - and yes, there are exceptions with regards to which battalion is involved.

As a whole, the N.F were a fine Regiment, why they don't attract as much attention as other English units has puzzled me for a long time and I can't explain it.

I didn't deride them in anyway.

As an aside, a cursory examination of the likes of E-bay will show, in my eyes anyway, that the N.F have a great number of medals in circulation. Whether that shows that they're not being kept in collections for long is another argument.

ps I have a nice couple of N.F groups in my collection

[GavinH]

I would have thought that it had something to do with the fact that the Northumberland Fusiliers expanded to forty odd battalions, making their medals common, while some regiments only had two.

Gavin

[Derek Robertson]

Yes but do you think that the larger the Regiment is, the more common it is, thus less popular?

That wouldn't work for the like of the Border Regiment who remain less popular for no reason that I can see.

[GavinH]

I would say that there are many factors involved, the relative rarity being just one. Just a thought, but perhaps 'Border' is too vague a term to appeal to some collectors?

[Guest scott leader]

Gavin H has a probable theory that some Regiments have more battalions than others thus making them more collectable?

On the other hand may be a certain Regiment bore the brunt of the fighting and other didn't?

Intrested topic

[Terry]

When I began to build my 1914 star collection some of my first acquisitions remain my favourites - all trios with bars to units like the 1/Scottish Rifles, 1/Northumberland Fusiliers, 1/Loyal North Lancs, 1/Middlesex, 2/Essex, 1/Royal Scots Fusiliers (KIA), 1/Hampshires, 2/KOYLI (KIA), 2/Royal Sussex, 2/Worcesters, 1/Royal Berks, and 2/Suffolks (POW Le Cateau). I don't know if socially any of these battalions ranked high on the pecking order of "good" units, but these men all reached France in August of 1914 and had bloody hard wars.

Since then I have added some more "glamourous" groups (several officers including one DSO group, Coldstreams, four cavalry units) but I still like best those trios to"lowly" private soldiers of those line infantry battalions.