Shell cases (trench art) conundrum/a(!) - Greek?

[trajan]

Here are a couple of well-worn 1912 and 1918 dated shell-cases with "trench art " I picked up the other day. And so given their original dates they fit into GWF, Mods!!!

 

Certainly well used, with head stamps indicating French origin ultimately - and 8.8 cm basal diameter and I'd guess 27.???? original height (75 mm canone?), neatly marked to SCHNEIDER ET CIE, with 'Sigma' marks for "S" at the 3:00 o'clock position suggesting Greek use. Trench art on both dated to 1921...

But, what nationality 'Trench art' are they? What do they commemorate / record? What language is that "0KTOBP"? Looks to be Greek  with the second "O" almost an omega, and a "P" for an "R" - but on 15th October 1921 the Greek army - in one of the last phases of the the "War to end all wars" - was retreating from Sakarya, and the closest thing I can fit with this date in the Turkish War of Independence is the Treaty of Kars with the Caucasian Republics... 

 

As usual, any help from GWF mates greatly appreciated!

 

PS: Colour adjusted on the headstamp photographs to make them clearer..

 

 

 

 

 

[assafx]

I'll try to ask a Greek friend of mine regarding the decoration.

The E and sigma representing the Greek army ( Ελληνικός Στρατός ).

so it is most likely a shell that was made for the Greek army. my guess is that this belongs to the greco turkish war of 1919-1922.

 

Assaf

[apwright]

Definitely Greek 15 ΟΚΤΩΒΡ[ΙΟΥ] 1921, but I've no idea what it commemorates. I've had a quick trawl through some newspaper archives, but can't find any likely candidates, apart from it being the feast day of St Lucian of Antioch.
Bear in mind that Greece clung on to the Julian calendar until 1923, so 15 October 1921 for the Greeks was 28 October for everyone else. 28 Oct is a national holiday now, but only since 1940.

 

Adrian

[michaeldr]

Julian,

 

Whatever they represent, they do it beautifully

A great find

 

regards

Michael

[trajan]

On 2/24/2018 at 08:47, assafx said:

... The E and sigma representing the Greek army ( Ελληνικός Στρατός ). so it is most likely a shell that was made for the Greek army. my guess is that this belongs to the greco turkish war of 1919-1922.

 

Thanks Assaf, I was unsure of the meaning of the E and the sigma, not having come across it before. Yes, I had assumed when I bought them Graeco-Turkish War of 1919-1922, but in October 1921, the Greek army was licking its wounds after Sakarya, and I can't find any action related to that date... BUT, read on...

 

On 2/24/2018 at 12:36, apwright said:

Definitely Greek 15 ΟΚΤΩΒΡ[ΙΟΥ] 1921, but I've no idea what it commemorates. I've had a quick trawl through some newspaper archives, but can't find any likely candidates, apart from it being the feast day of St Lucian of Antioch.
Bear in mind that Greece clung on to the Julian calendar until 1923, so 15 October 1921 for the Greeks was 28 October for everyone else. 28 Oct is a national holiday now, but only since 1940.

 

Adrian, I did wonder if the Greeks were still using the Julian system or not, so nice to have clarification there - also that it is a Greek text and not some minor Balkan script I have never come across! The St.Lucian connection would seem to be the only one that fits as otherwise it is a puzzle to fit it in with what little I know of campaigns and actions in Anatolia in late 1921. What I mean by that is how Izmit = Nicomedia, was the place of St.Lucian's martyrdom, and I think Izmit was still under Greek occupation in October 1921 (if only just!), so explaining why there might be an example of Greek trench art with this otherwise obscure date somehow related to the Graeco-Turkish War. In other words, some Greek artillery chap sitting idly by in Nicomedia making this for the day - and then...

 

On 2/24/2018 at 16:31, michaeldr said:

Whatever they represent, they do it beautifully ... A great find

 

Thank you Michael! They are certainly attractive pieces - and pieces with an obscure but possibly resolved origin now! Mind you, I had to polish them up a bit to get SWMBO's approval...

 

All: thanks for your contributions. For various work reasons I have been off GWF for a while (and even missed the unfortunate he who should not be named issue!) but for some obscure reason none of your posts came up when I clicked on 'Activity since my last visit' and I only found them by trawling back! Wonder what else I missed...

 

Best wishes,

 

Julian

[assafx]

the only thing i was able to find was that italian and french forces retreated from anatlia in october 1921. i would have expected a turkish writing on this trench art.

[trajan]

Would you believe it is hard to discover from Turkish sources exactly when the Greek forces left Izmit? Seems to have been 26-27-28th October, though, so the theory sketched out above becomes slightly more viable: made in Izmit on 15th October old style / 23rd October new style to commemorate St.Lucian. But, a whiff of controversy seeps in as the Greek army occupied Izmit partly in response to the massacre of Graeco-Turks there in June/July 1921. So, trench art using shell cases of WW1 vintage supplied to the Greek army, decorated ostensibly for the feast of St.Lucian, allegedly martyred at Nicomedia (Izmit), but in connection with marking the massacres before the Greek occupation? I welcome any thoughts and comments!

 

Meanwhile, I assume that these are for the 'canon Schneider 75 mm' and so will repost the case head stamps in arms to get some more information on the markings.

 

Julian