Unknown Officer 3rd Dragoon Guards

[andrew pugh]

Hi Will

The rededication service that I am attending is for L/Cpl Brunton Smith 1/8th Royal Scots which is taking place in Bancourt British Cemetery. There will be at least 11 members of the family there including Grandchildren. This service will take place in the afternoon. Hope the weather is kind to us all that day.

Regards

Andy

[Matlock1418]

11 hours ago, andrew pugh said:

I am going to a rededication service in France on the 17th November for one of my soldiers. There will be  folks there representing the CWGC and the JCCC I will confront them together and tell them how we all feel after the service. Five years to finalise a case it's a joke. I will let you know what the outcome is. 

Well done for your earlier success - Excellent plan - Hope weather kind and trip and discussions go well.

M

Edited 26 October , 2022 by Matlock1418

[Chesterboy]

2 hours ago, andrew pugh said:

Hi Will

The rededication service that I am attending is for L/Cpl Brunton Smith 1/8th Royal Scots which is taking place in Bancourt British Cemetery. There will be at least 11 members of the family there including Grandchildren. This service will take place in the afternoon. Hope the weather is kind to us all that day.

Regards

Andy

Andy 

 

on the discussion of time of submission and the final decision being received 

when did you submit your case and when did hear that it been accepted 

will

[andrew pugh]

Hi Will

Funny you should ask that question. I submitted my evidence to the CWGC, I was given a case number then I heard nothing for months. So I contacted them again and asked them for an update, they told me that it was with NAM. I then found myself in a situation where I could get no information. After another length of time I received a letter from the JCCC saying that the case had been refused because they could not determine if Brunton Smith had been a signaller and also could not prove that he had been wounded. You can imagine how I felt totally deflated after about 2 years of waiting. I asked them if they could keep the case open to try and give me some time to prove that he was a signaller and that he had been wounded.       

I had already been in contact with the family in the earlier stages of my research and told them who I was and  who I think I may have found I, and explained to them that my research was still ongoing and they were ok with that. Incidentally it was their Grandfather. They were very helpful and we became quit friendly with one another, and gave me lots of information I did not know. When I mentioned that I had been in contact with the family the lady at the JCCC was very critical and said I should not be contacting the family in case I upset them and build up their hopes, which is a valid point. Its a good job I didn't take her advice because they had the evidence that clinched it. They had a diary stating he was a signaller and they had a photograph of him in hospital. They sent me copies and I presented them as additional evidence. Isn't it funny how they (JCCC) could not determine if he had been wounded and yet a very kind person on the forum could give me proof that he had been wounded. This forum has been a fantastic source of help and advice. And I would not have been able to have successfully named the four soldiers to date, so thank you everyone who has helped me over the years. 

With the blip in the middle that case took about 3 years. Thank you for your interest.

Kind Regards

Andy 

[Matlock1418]

13 minutes ago, andrew pugh said:

When I mentioned that I had been in contact with the family the lady at the JCCC was very critical and said I should not be contacting the family in case I upset them and build up their hopes, which is a valid point. Its a good job I didn't take her advice because they had the evidence that clinched it. They had a diary stating he was a signaller and they had a photograph of him in hospital. They sent me copies and I presented them as additional evidence. Isn't it funny how they (JCCC) could not determine if he had been wounded and yet a very kind person on the forum could give me proof that he had been wounded.

I think you were luckier than many, and in only about three years  - It rather seems many do not get timely or decent feedback from CWGC/JCCC et al [I certainly haven't! And nothing further even when I pressed. ]

I think CWGC/JCCC et al need all the help they can get - and yet they seem very reluctant to accept it or even think there are people out there who could actually help them do their job better [and/or it sometimes seems they potentially fail to even positively consider alternative and/or direct routes such as you - OK there may be raised hopes and then a potential dashing of them but otherwise how would you have succeeded?].  Better that you/we try, certainly better than nobody trying and the mystery(ies) remain = Very well done.  

Hope the dedication and your conversation with CWGC and JCCC do well - do please let us know.  Photos always welcomed. 

M

[andrew pugh]

Hi M

We sent 5 cases to the CWGC about a year ago and have not heard if they or any of them have even been looked at yet. I have phoned twice to see if any of them have been looked at each time I have been transferred to someone working from home guess what! no answer each time. I have tried using their email but that doesn't work properly. The ladyon the switchboard tried to help but could not access the records, even she said that the enquiries email wasn't working properly, she said there were issues with it. I will keep you and the forum updated. I personally think the CWGC is now run as a big business.    

Kind Regards

Andy

[Chesterboy]

4 hours ago, andrew pugh said:

Hi Will

Funny you should ask that question. I submitted my evidence to the CWGC, I was given a case number then I heard nothing for months. So I contacted them again and asked them for an update, they told me that it was with NAM. I then found myself in a situation where I could get no information. After another length of time I received a letter from the JCCC saying that the case had been refused because they could not determine if Brunton Smith had been a signaller and also could not prove that he had been wounded. You can imagine how I felt totally deflated after about 2 years of waiting. I asked them if they could keep the case open to try and give me some time to prove that he was a signaller and that he had been wounded.       

I had already been in contact with the family in the earlier stages of my research and told them who I was and  who I think I may have found I, and explained to them that my research was still ongoing and they were ok with that. Incidentally it was their Grandfather. They were very helpful and we became quit friendly with one another, and gave me lots of information I did not know. When I mentioned that I had been in contact with the family the lady at the JCCC was very critical and said I should not be contacting the family in case I upset them and build up their hopes, which is a valid point. Its a good job I didn't take her advice because they had the evidence that clinched it. They had a diary stating he was a signaller and they had a photograph of him in hospital. They sent me copies and I presented them as additional evidence. Isn't it funny how they (JCCC) could not determine if he had been wounded and yet a very kind person on the forum could give me proof that he had been wounded. This forum has been a fantastic source of help and advice. And I would not have been able to have successfully named the four soldiers to date, so thank you everyone who has helped me over the years. 

With the blip in the middle that case took about 3 years. Thank you for your interest.

Kind Regards

Andy 

Andy, 

funny you should ask, which you did not answer correctly 

 

so what year did you submit your first case, and then updated case, when did you get the accepted case email

I note that your case was number 273.  Case number 414  ( Pte Thomas Parry KOSB ) was submitted in September 2017 by somebody who is no longer with us. 
 

this case was accepted in August 2022 by the JCCC and the rededication ceremony took place only last week

[micks]

There are a number of older cases still pending. Number 254 ( Pte James McCafferty, 5th Bn. Tank Corps ) was submitted to the CWGC in March 2017.

[jaykayu]

On 26/10/2022 at 00:01, andrew pugh said:

Hi

I am going to a rededication service in France on the 17th November for one of my soldiers. There will be  folks there representing the CWGC and the JCCC I will confront them together and tell them how we all feel after the service. Five years to finalise a case it's a joke. I will let you know what the outcome is. 

Regards

Andy 

Good idea Andy.

It's in the interests of the CWGC and the JCCC to act on reducing this delay - if they don't the worst case scenario for them is a news story appearing in the media criticising them about it. This is the last thing CWGC will want after the the non commemoration in Africa issue, neither will the 'MOD War Detectives' want anything negative affecting their PR campaign either.

J

[Chesterboy]

We now had 2 television programmes featuring the War Detectives, where they trace the relatives of discovered remains. 
 

they should do a new programme in which they focus on the graves of the unknowns 

it should involve the researchers, the cwgc the nam. 
 

therefore should start when a researcher has started to look into a grave and then finally the rededication service

[andrew pugh]

Hi Chesterboy

I will look through my files and give you a date and time period for my first case

Regards

Andy

[Chesterboy]

On 26/10/2022 at 00:01, andrew pugh said:

Hi

I am going to a rededication service in France on the 17th November for one of my soldiers. There will be  folks there representing the CWGC and the JCCC I will confront them together and tell them how we all feel after the service. Five years to finalise a case it's a joke. I will let you know what the outcome is. 

Regards

Andy 

Andy 

how did you fare, with the above 

[jaykayu]

On 27/10/2022 at 08:28, micks said:

There are a number of older cases still pending. Number 254 ( Pte James McCafferty, 5th Bn. Tank Corps ) was submitted to the CWGC in March 2017.

Looking promising for this one. The MOD are searching for surviving family of Pte James McCafferty here

Edited 23 January , 2023 by jaykayu

[Chesterboy]

2 hours ago, jaykayu said:

Looking promising for this one. The MOD are searching for surviving family of Pte James McCafferty here

It’s all over the place, with cases been accepted.  As the Fallen Diggers had released the news, that another one of there cases had been accepted 

case no 684 - Heath  Cemetery, Harbonniere. V. I. 11.Private Horace Hilton Thoroughgood, 4194Australian Pioneers, 1st25 August 1918  

 

[jaykayu]

21 hours ago, Chesterboy said:

It’s all over the place, with cases been accepted.  As the Fallen Diggers had released the news, that another one of there cases had been accepted 

case no 684 - Heath  Cemetery, Harbonniere. V. I. 11.Private Horace Hilton Thoroughgood, 4194Australian Pioneers, 1st25 August 1918  

 

That's interesting, as in my estimate Case 684 was probably sent to CWGC in May 2020, and so two years & eight months is a very quick time to receive a case approval. For the cases that had rededication ceremonies since last March the typical wait for approval is more like four years.  Horace Hilton Thoroughgood's case 684 has probably been fast tracked by the authorities to occur at the same time as a case presented earlier for another soldier - possibly Australian - at Heath  Cemetery, Harbonnieres, or a nearby cemetery, and so be more economical to arrange. 

[jaykayu]

On 09/10/2022 at 01:51, micks said:

A quick update regarding this topic and the report which I presented to the CWGC in 2017. On Friday the JCCC informed me that my evidence has been accepted and a rededication service for Second Lieutenant Wilfred Massey-Lynch will be held in late 2023.

Announced today that a rededication service for Second Lieutenant Wilfred John Massey-Lynch will take place in just over 3 weeks on 23 March 2023 at 2.30pm, Crucifix Corner Cemetery, Villers-Bretonneux, France. Gov.uk

Edited 27 February , 2023 by jaykayu
typo

[andrew pugh]

Hi All

Well done, did they find any family members? The cases I am waiting for are 861 865 907 126 127.

Regards

Andy

[dickaren]

I sent an email to CWGC on 25th January to ask when the list of ID cases would be updated as it is over 18 months out of date but as yet have not had an answer.

Richard

[Cheshire22]

1 hour ago, dickaren said:

I sent an email to CWGC on 25th January to ask when the list of ID cases would be updated as it is over 18 months out of date but as yet have not had an answer.

Richard

It submitted a couple of cases last year, I checked the list and they weren’t on the list. 
 

one was immediately rejected as there were already 2 cases submitted for it, i insist that they accept the submission as it was not my fault that they could not keep the list up to date.  
 

I included the director of the CWGC in a tweet 🐣 about it but nothing came over it 

[dickaren]

26 minutes ago, Cheshire22 said:

It submitted a couple of cases last year, I checked the list and they weren’t on the list. 
 

one was immediately rejected as there were already 2 cases submitted for it, i insist that they accept the submission as it was not my fault that they could not keep the list up to date.  
 

I included the director of the CWGC in a tweet 🐣 about it but nothing came over it 

I will leave it a few more days and then contact them again to try to get an answer. Will keep you informed.

Richard