James Caven Tank Corps

[Gareth Davies]

I am helping @dgibson150with a project/challenge.  Before I go into battle I wan't to make sure I have my facts straight.  From what David has told me I know the following about James Caven.  There are gaps (including: where was he in 1911, did he have prior service, why was he discharged 4 days before he died).  Any additional information much appreciated.  JC has appeared previously in 2 threads and these are linked at the bottom.  

 

James Caven

 

Birth: Inch, Wigtownshire  14 Jan 1892

 

Father: James, domestic coachman. Later beer bottler.

 

Mother: Marion.  Died between 1901 and 1906.

 

Step-Mother: Mary. 

 

Siblings:

Peter served in the Royal Artillery in WW1 and was awarded the DCM and the Belgian Croix de Guerre.

 

Robert.

 

2 x ½ brothers (Alexander & Ronald)

 

Childhood:  His family seems to have remained in Scotland throughout James’ childhood.

1901 Census – living in Inch (aged 9) with parents. 

1911 Census - Missing from census as is his brother Peter but brother Robert and 2 half-brothers are living with James (the father) in Inch.

 

Service Record: 

 

·       19343 Pte Royal Scots Fusiliers

·       To France 28 June 1915

·       Tfrd to Heavy Branch MGC in Feb 17. To I Bn.  95077,

·       Mentioned in despatches (LG 27/12/1918) CSM 9th Battalion.

·       MSM (LG 30/5/1919) RSM 9th Battalion

·       Medaille d'Honneur (LG 12/12/1919) Company Serjeant-Major (temporary Regimental Serjeant-Major) 9th Battalion Tank Corps.

·       Discharged under Para 392 (XVI) [No longer physically fit for war service] on 5 Feb 1920, 4 days before his death.

 

Died:  9 Feb 1920 of Pulmonary and Laryngeal Tuberculosis at Edinburgh City Hospital for Infectious Diseases.

 

 @dgibson150

 

 

 

[Gareth Davies]

Bump.  

[Dragoon]

 

I can only find this on FMP, i've trawled through the 1911 census to no avail.

Hope this helps

 

Chris

[Gareth Davies]

Thanks for looking Chris.  

[dgibson150]

I have just found some new information.

 

I think James Caven #19343 served with the Royal Scots Fusiliers before the first world war. I had a closer read of the service record of Henry Kyzer # 19342. When Kyzer attested he declared 6 years and six months prior service with the RSF. Towards the end of his record are two letters dated around the beginning of June 1915, the first suggesting that if Kyzer #9756 does not reattest then the Army would arrest him, and the second saying that A Brown #9450 and J Caven #10034 (related cases) have valid protection certificates under Army Order 297 of 1914 and that the Army has no further claim on them, but that all three can reattest if they wish. It is noted that Kyzer, Brown and Caven reattested with new RSF service numbers #19342, #19341 and #19343.

 

Kyzer's Service records include an internal communication re the attestation of Caven #19343 on his transfer to the Machine Gun Corps on 22 February 1916.

 

A Brown's service record survives. He first attested in August 1907 and deserted on 16 December 1910, from I think the 1st Bn RSF. He rejoined in South Africa on 18 September 1914, claiming a King's Pardon and was granted a Protection Certificate on the authority of DAAG South Africa. It seems highly likely that James Caven followed the same route, which explains his absence from the 1911 Census.

 

Am I correct in assuming that Army Order 297 of 1914 created the King's Pardon?

 

The relevant service records are Brown and Kyzer.

Edited 13 February , 2018 by dgibson150

[ss002d6252]

#19343 / #95077 Caven has a war gratuity of £34 - for a RSM this gives 50 months qualifying service by 3 August 1919 and would indicate enlistment in the month from 4 June 1915. This is consistent with the surrounding numbers, #19341 was issued 4 June 1915.

Being sent to France in the infantry after 24 days or so service would certainly tie in with a man who had earlier training.

Craig

[Gareth Davies]

On 2/7/2018 at 14:50, Gareth Davies said:

 Discharged under Para 392 (XVI) [No longer physically fit for war service] on 5 Feb 1920, 4 days before his death.

 

Died:  9 Feb 1920 of Pulmonary and Laryngeal Tuberculosis at Edinburgh City Hospital for Infectious Diseases.

 

Was his discharge due to the TB that killed him 4 days later?  If so was this normal practice?

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Gareth Davies said:

 

Was his discharge due to the TB that killed him 4 days later?  If so was this normal practice?

 

       An interesting point- Treatment by the Armed Forces of TB cases seems to vary.  Some men seem to be discharged during the war for TB-hence the excellent work of Terry Denham et al for tracking them and having them properly remembered and memorialised. Given the prevalence of  respiratory infections in the Royal Flying Corps, it is no surprise that RFC officers with TB ascribed in causation to being "on service" is rather extended. I have a parallel case of a teenager-RFC pilot, won the MC for shooting down a German observation balloon on the Somme in 1916-then sick with TB-died in an a sanatorium  in Scotland in 1920. It seems that the Army would easily dump men whose TB was dated to before service. . This chap seems unfortunate- the Army would discharge men but usually there is a trail of Poor Law hospital etc after that until death. This man was unfortunate in his timing-4 days is not testament to the heartlessness of the Army but rather the rapidity of the variety of TB he had in killing him.

Edited 14 February , 2018 by Guest

[IPT]

Regarding the 1911 census, I haven't got access to jockular records, but are the brothers with their uncle, George Allan, in Main Street, Holytown?

[dgibson150]

Thanks IPT for looking into this.

 

Unfortunately the brothers  are not in Holytown. GeorgeAllan and his wife are recorded living with only an adopted daughter, Robina.

 

David

 

 

[Gareth Davies]

Thanks to all your efforts, with what David had already put together and your additional snippets I have passed the application to have James Caven's name added to the Scottish National War Memorial to HHQ RTR who will hopefully send it north very shortly.  I will let you know what happens.

[Gareth Davies]

RSM James Caven died 100 years ago today. An application has been made to get his name added to the Scottish National War Memorial.

[dgibson150]

Thanks for posting this Gareth and thanks to CWGC for changing the headstone. I notice the wreath still has the "old" spelling of James' surname, ie Cavan.

 

David

[Gareth Davies]

Yes. I am not sure how they managed to get it wrong, I gave them the correct info.  Hey ho.