Shiny Posted 6 February , 2018 Share Posted 6 February , 2018 Hi All, I hope this is in the right place as it's RAF. I've just discovered a relative who according to the CWGC website died in a crash whilst flying on the 6th of April 1918. I've never looked at an RAF casualty before so I was hoping someone may be able to help point me in the direction. I think his record is on Fold 3 so I'll have to wait for that one but is there anywhere I can find out where he was and what happened? Thanks a lot, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 6 February , 2018 Admin Share Posted 6 February , 2018 (edited) There's a record in the National Archives http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8192891 And some more info including a picture of him here http://www.universitiesatwar.org.uk/explore/blair-thomas-finkall The second link has a lot of information in that hopefully you will find useful, it does detail where and when he died and details of the aircraft he was flying at the time. Edited 6 February , 2018 by DavidOwen Added comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 6 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 6 February , 2018 David that is fantastic, thank you so much. I have just found a record for him on as a private soldier on Ancestry but that university website is brilliant, and to get a photo of him is unbelievable! Thank you Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 6 February , 2018 Share Posted 6 February , 2018 Dear David, Good work! Your effort highlights, yet again, the power of expertise which typifies the Great War Forum. Michael's reaction says it all, and I am also happy to say that I have enjoyed similar successes. Well done! Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 6 February , 2018 Admin Share Posted 6 February , 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Shiny said: David that is fantastic, thank you so much. I have just found a record for him on as a private soldier on Ancestry but that university website is brilliant, and to get a photo of him is unbelievable! Thank you Michael 17 minutes ago, Kimberley John Lindsay said: Dear David, Good work! Your effort highlights, yet again, the power of expertise which typifies the Great War Forum. Michael's reaction says it all, and I am also happy to say that I have enjoyed similar successes. Well done! Kindest regards, Kim. Thank you both, just a lucky Google Search - that Universities site looks as though there may be more gems hidden within. David Total of 368 staff/students remembered - from Privates/Drivers to the Head of the War Hospital in Reading (aged 61 when he died in 1918). A useful link I think. Edited 6 February , 2018 by DavidOwen Further info re Universities at war website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmsk212 Posted 6 February , 2018 Share Posted 6 February , 2018 (edited) Hi Try these links :- http://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/archive/blair-t.m.-thomas-finkall http://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/archive/blair-t.f.-thomas-finkall Steve Edited 6 February , 2018 by hmsk212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 6 February , 2018 Admin Share Posted 6 February , 2018 (edited) These are the casualties listed by CWGC for 6/4/1918 for RAF - two have missing locations, Blair and Jewell, might the latter be in the other seat of the RE8? (Apologies for the total lack of formatting expertise!) GILLETT HOWARD RAYMOND H R 18 06/04/1918 Second Lieutenant Royal Air Force (R.N.A.S. Station, Manston). United Kingdom HAMPSTEAD CEMETERY WC. 620. Son of Raymond Gillett, of 101, Broadhurst Gardens, Hampstead, London. JEWELL J B 06/04/1918 Lieutenant Royal Flying Corps United Kingdom RUISLIP (ST. MARTIN) CHURCHYARD EXTENSION I. 71. HUNT W E 19 06/04/1918 Air Mechanic 2nd Class Royal Air Force (Crystal Palace). United Kingdom '218121' HANWELL (CITY OF WESTMINSTER) CEMETERY G. 6772. Son of Henry James and Elisabeth Sarah Hunt, of 12, Elthorne Park Rd., Hanwell. Born at Hanwell. BROADFOOT CHARLES C 36 06/04/1918 Serjeant Royal Air Force Recruits Depot United Kingdom '21083' KINGSTON-UPON-THAMES CEMETERY C. 3769. Son of the late Mr. and Mrs. George Broadfoot, of Kingston-on-Thames; husband of Hilda E. Broadfoot, of 40, Belmont Avenue, New Malden, Surrey. BLAIR THOMAS FINKALL T F 22 06/04/1918 Second Lieutenant Royal Air Force United Kingdom TYNEMOUTH (PRESTON) CEMETERY C. U. 9573. Son of Thomas Finkall Blair and Sarah Jane Blair, of 22, Widdrington Terrace, North Shields. Edited 6 February , 2018 by DavidOwen Apology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpjpl Posted 6 February , 2018 Share Posted 6 February , 2018 42 minutes ago, DavidOwen said: These are the casualties listed by CWGC for 6/4/1918 for RAF - two have missing locations, Blair and Jewell, might the latter be in the other seat of the RE8? (Apologies for the total lack of formatting expertise!) GILLETT HOWARD RAYMOND H R 18 06/04/1918 Second Lieutenant Royal Air Force (R.N.A.S. Station, Manston). United Kingdom HAMPSTEAD CEMETERY WC. 620. Son of Raymond Gillett, of 101, Broadhurst Gardens, Hampstead, London. JEWELL J B 06/04/1918 Lieutenant Royal Flying Corps United Kingdom RUISLIP (ST. MARTIN) CHURCHYARD EXTENSION I. 71. HUNT W E 19 06/04/1918 Air Mechanic 2nd Class Royal Air Force (Crystal Palace). United Kingdom '218121' HANWELL (CITY OF WESTMINSTER) CEMETERY G. 6772. Son of Henry James and Elisabeth Sarah Hunt, of 12, Elthorne Park Rd., Hanwell. Born at Hanwell. BROADFOOT CHARLES C 36 06/04/1918 Serjeant Royal Air Force Recruits Depot United Kingdom '21083' KINGSTON-UPON-THAMES CEMETERY C. 3769. Son of the late Mr. and Mrs. George Broadfoot, of Kingston-on-Thames; husband of Hilda E. Broadfoot, of 40, Belmont Avenue, New Malden, Surrey. BLAIR THOMAS FINKALL T F 22 06/04/1918 Second Lieutenant Royal Air Force United Kingdom TYNEMOUTH (PRESTON) CEMETERY C. U. 9573. Son of Thomas Finkall Blair and Sarah Jane Blair, of 22, Widdrington Terrace, North Shields. Two separate accidents - John Belmont Jewell was flying a Sopwith Camel. JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 6 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 6 February , 2018 (edited) Thank you so much for the extra information Steve, those cards really add to his story and explain exactly what happened. David, I hadn't thought of a simple google search. I wonder how many others I've missed by not doing that. The link to his officers record at the NA also says it is on FMP so I'll get into the library and get that. According to the first link Steve posted he was on his own in the aircraft but classed as under instruction so presumably near the end of his training. It says he stalled during a turn and then nose dived into the ground. After going through France for 2 years with the Northumberland Fusiliers that is such bad luck, especially so close to the end of it all. His grave in Preston cemetery is actually walking distance from my house so I'll go and try to find him at the weekend. Thank you all so much for your help. Michael Edited 6 February , 2018 by Shiny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vickers Posted 6 February , 2018 Share Posted 6 February , 2018 Here is the Shields Daily News article referred to on the University website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 6 February , 2018 Admin Share Posted 6 February , 2018 1 hour ago, helpjpl said: Two separate accidents - John Belmont Jewell was flying a Sopwith Camel. JP Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 6 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 6 February , 2018 1 hour ago, John Vickers said: Here is the Shields Daily News article referred to on the University website. Thanks a lot John that's great. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 12 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 12 February , 2018 (edited) Hi All, I'm pleased to report my wife and I found Thomas's grave on Sunday but it has got me wondering about the whole CWGC thing. He is listed on the CWGC site and has all of the usual headstone documents but as you can see from the photo there is no headstone. I did notice on the paperwork there is a stamp saying "Headstone for this grave is not included in the contract". Another document has the memorial type listed as MW and there is a hand written note saying "Gran head stone kerb". Can anyone explain what all of that means? Spookily enough I have another relative buried in the same cemetery who died in exactly the same circumstances but from WW2 (I guess we were not meant to be pilots!), he is also in a family plot which has a private curb around the plot but with a CWGC headstone. Should Robert not have something similar or has this been a family choice maybe? Thanks, Michael Edited 12 February , 2018 by Shiny Typo corrected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 12 February , 2018 Admin Share Posted 12 February , 2018 Pleased at your success Michael. Might "Gran head stone kerb" mean a grant has been made for a headstone and kerb (as it was a private memorial and not a grave that CWGC are/were responsible for)? MW could refer to Military Wooden (Cross) as indicated by the CWGC glossary https://www.cwgc.org/find/find-war-dead-and-cemeteries/glossary Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 12 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 12 February , 2018 Hi David, That could well make sense, so presumably that means they don't maintain it as it is a private one rather that in with the other war graves. Thanks a lot, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 12 February , 2018 Admin Share Posted 12 February , 2018 Not sure Michael but the headstone definitely doesn't conform with the standard CWGC format. It could well be that as he died in the UK his body was returned/claimed by his parents as did happen then. I guess you could enquire of the CWGC or perhaps the cemetery owners (local council?)? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 12 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 12 February , 2018 Thanks a lot David, he died as a pilot under training in Lincolnshire so that's probably exactly what happened. Thanks for the help, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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