AVC Help needed

[RR1914]

We have a man on our war memorial in Rodborough Gloucestershire who we are unable to identify. The only concrete information is his name G. Williams.

There are a few random facts that may be relevant:

Local paper 20/8/1915 recorded a George Williams of the parish enlisted AVC

A book compiled in 1920 from local news reports notes G. Williams AVC died 1916. No suitable records found.
Ancestry records have a Pte George Williams AVC SE/11753 discharged 10/8/1916 "sickness"

Local burial George Albert Williams aged 48 March 1917 - maybe the paper was wrong and he was discharged rather than died in 1916?

 

So wondering - does this service number fit the enlistment date? - was he too old to have been volunteering then? - reading on this forum suggests he might have been a horsekeeper, so are we looking for a man from farming / equine background?

 

Any advice appreciated.

TIA

[sotonmate]

George Albert Williams, 42  in 1911 Census, lived at Beehive,Ebley,STROUD,Glos, a village a short distance from Rodborough. His wife  Florence and children Florrie and William. He was a Stoker in a Gas Company.

Your detail would indicate that he was discharged unfit, and there is a Silver War Badge (number 61035) for a George Williams of the AVC, who is shown as enlisting on 7 Aug 1915 and discharged to sickness on 10 Aug 1916. It would be feasible that he died from the sickness in 1917.

[RR1914]

9 minutes ago, sotonmate said:

George Albert Williams, 42  in 1911 Census, lived at Beehive,Ebley,STROUD,Glos, a village a short distance from Rodborough. His wife  Florence and children Florrie and William. He was a Stoker in a Gas Company.

Your detail would indicate that he was discharged unfit, and there is a Silver War Badge (number 61035) for a George Williams of the AVC, who is shown as enlisting on 7 Aug 1915 and discharged to sickness on 10 Aug 1916. It would be feasible that he died from the sickness in 1917.

Thanks. Have noted those facts, but wondered if I am jumping to conclusions. Why would a stoker join the AVC and isn't he a bit old?

 

[kenf48]

The SE prefix indicates Special Enlistment.  These enlistments to the AVC were usually for appointments as ‘horsekeeper’.  Their job was tweed and care for horses and required some experience and the men recruited were usually grooms or in similar trades.  They tended to be older and were not expected, or trained, to fight as infantry.  His number accords with Enlistment in August 1915.

 

I don’t know why a stoker should be required by the AVC but if he had some experience of working with horses at some time prior to 1911, or persuaded the recruiter he had, then he could have been enlisted.  There were specific recruiting campaigns for these posts.

 

Ken

 

[RR1914]

11 hours ago, kenf48 said:

The SE prefix indicates Special Enlistment.  These enlistments to the AVC were usually for appointments as ‘horsekeeper’.  Their job was tweed and care for horses and required some experience and the men recruited were usually grooms or in similar trades.  They tended to be older and were not expected, or trained, to fight as infantry.  His number accords with Enlistment in August 1915.

 

I don’t know why a stoker should be required by the AVC but if he had some experience of working with horses at some time prior to 1911, or persuaded the recruiter he had, then he could have been enlisted.  There were specific recruiting campaigns for these posts.

 

Ken

 

Thanks Ken this is really helpful and confirms my train of thought and that perhaps there is more history to this man than we currently know.

[kenf48]

12 hours ago, RR1914 said:

Thanks Ken this is really helpful and confirms my train of thought and that perhaps there is more history to this man than we currently know.

 

You're welcome, 

 

this advertisement inviting older men to enlist in, among other units, the AVC appeared in a Birmingham newspaper in July 1915, no doubt it was in the local newspapers in Gloucester.  Guess you're going to have to dig deeper!  Sadly many of these older men were often discharged soon after enlisting as unfit, or suffered while in service, often from a pre existing condition.  If you get his death certificate it may contain more details.  His soldiers effects entry, available on Ancestry here

confirms he died after discharge (wrongly indexed as Ordnance Corps).

btw predictive text struck in my previous it was ‘to feed’ not ‘tweed’

 

Ken

 

Edited 7 February , 2018 by kenf48

[RR1914]

 

12 hours ago, kenf48 said:

 

 

 

this advertisement inviting older men to enlist in, among other units, the AVC appeared in a Birmingham newspaper in July 1915, no doubt it was in the local newspapers in Gloucester.  Guess you're going to have to dig deeper!  Sadly many of these older men were often discharged soon after enlisting as unfit, or suffered while in service, often from a pre existing condition.  If you get his death certificate it may contain more details.  His soldiers effects entry, available on Ancestry here

confirms he died after discharge (wrongly indexed as Ordnance Corps).

btw predictive text struck in my previous it was ‘to feed’ not ‘tweed’

 

Ken

 

 

Ken, thanks again. This is really helpful as it confirms wife Florence and that he was of suitable age and died after discharge. I have sent for the death certificate, so hoping to confirm that he is the George Albert Williams buried here.

[RR1914]

Thanks to all who replied. I now have the death cert for George Albert Williams, buried at Rodborough, which gives his service number as above and AVC and stoker and husband of Florence, so there is no doubt that all these references are the same man. He died of ruptured carcinoma of the aorta. Perhaps unusual to be on a memorial with a death not directly related to war, but there seems to be no other alternative.

[johntanner]

Interesting but not as unusual as you might think.  Arthur Spittles from Wendover was a RFA gunner.  He had a leg amputated as a result of bone cancer arising after a broken leg in a sledging accident before he enlisted.  He was then discharged and died of TB the following year. Not serving and cause of death not attributable to war service - on the local memorial.  All down to what the people agreeing who would go on the memorial thought.

[RR1914]

1 hour ago, johntanner said:

Interesting but not as unusual as you might think.  Arthur Spittles from Wendover was a RFA gunner.  He had a leg amputated as a result of bone cancer arising after a broken leg in a sledging accident before he enlisted.  He was then discharged and died of TB the following year. Not serving and cause of death not attributable to war service - on the local memorial.  All down to what the people agreeing who would go on the memorial thought.

Poor man, but yes indeed. We have no idea how the men were selected. Some have very dubious or no obvious link to the parish, some are on many memorials and there are some not on the memorial who would seem to have a strong argument for inclusion . This man has an unmarked grave in the churchyard, so it is good that he can now be remembered.