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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Regiment ID if possible - Taken Lewisham


heatherannej

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Hello again ... it may be that you need to ask me to a take close up from this group photograph, before you can help me.    I can tell you about the photographer but nothing else!

 

This photograph has the following printed stamp on the back: “CHEAL  290 Hither Green Lane S.E.”.  The photographer will be either Charles Cheal (born 1850, East Grinstead) or his son John Albert Cheal (born 1886, Reigate. Aka Albert John MacDonald Cheal) – depending on when the photograph was taken. 

 

In the 1911 Census, Charles was living at “361 Hither Green Lane, Lewisham S E”; with wife Annie; and son John Albert.  John Albert Cheal enlisted in 12 May 1916, into the Army Service Corps (R.A.S.C.) regiment - Private S/407195.  John Albert’s occupation was given as “Photographer”/”Own Business” (of the 290 Hither Green Lane address) - he did not serve abroad because he had defective vision.  He was discharged on 19 October 1919, from the Cleaning Office, R.A.S.C. M.T.

 

As always, I will so appreciate any observations anyone can give, to accompany the photo when I place it online.   As with all the others I am asking help with, it was within a V.A.D. nurses' collection.   Many thank, Heather

BlancheMillerCollection_02_PhotographerCheal.jpg.ace6ef09f5b2e0062100db7a40171176.jpg

 

 

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There are some regular-looking NCOs, seated, one with a medal,  but the remainder are in mostly in officers' uniforms (collar and tie), but no rank badges are visible. Their belts are not Sam Brownes (no cross-belt) and look more like other rank belts.   Perhaps officer cadets.  The white cap-bands may be a clue.  The two seated to our right look more mature than the rest but also seem to have bare sleeves.

I cannot make out the cap badges.

D

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The white cap bands are discussed in here -

I wonder if the NCO's were instructors to officer cadets ? The NCO's seem to be taking pride of place in the picture.

 

Craig

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Actually four or five of those men with light/whitecap bands look rather older, as daggers has noted. It's not a subject I'd be interested in what scenario would fit this - perhaps Lt Quartermaster commissions and the like; but would that account for perhaps 4 or 5 in a group this size? And another (possibly idiot) question - the fourth man from the left, back row, is wearing what I think of as an OR's tunic, unlike the rest of the group bar instructors. Is that significant? There are a few group photos of officer cadets on t'internet, and they seem to follow the same conventions of tunics-no rank badges-no collar dogs-white cap bands; haven't seen an OR tunic in one yet in a very quick look around, but appreciate that might not be meaningful.

 

Cheers, Pat.

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Thank you one and all for your contributions thus far ... I will try and get close-up images of the cap badges ... Heather

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From my reading, officer cadets were distinguishable by their white cap bands.

 

Regards,

JMB

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Good Morning

 

It seems to me that the chap 4th from left in the back row wearing the OR uniform may well also be an NCO as it appears he has a lanyard on his left shoulder which makes 6 out the 27 pictured not wearing a collar and tie and 21 who are.

 

regards

 

Indefatigable

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1 hour ago, Indefatigable said:

Good Morning

 

It seems to me that the chap 4th from left in the back row wearing the OR uniform may well also be an NCO as it appears he has a lanyard on his left shoulder which makes 6 out the 27 pictured not wearing a collar and tie and 21 who are.

 

regards

 

Indefatigable

Could he be a senior nco going through officer training after promotion in the ranks, quite common mid war due to the officer shortages??

 

Dave.

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Thank you everyone ... I am trying to digest all the observations.   I will come back tomorrow, with some close-ups on the cap badges (didn't manage it today).  Heather

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Here are some close-ups and I hope they help.  If you need me to home in on any particular chap, then I gladly will.  Thank you.

BlancheMillerCollection_02_1.JPG

BlancheMillerCollection_02_2.JPG

BlancheMillerCollection_02_3.JPG

BlancheMillerCollection_02_4.JPG

BlancheMillerCollection_02_5.JPG

BlancheMillerCollection_02_6.JPG

BlancheMillerCollection_02_7.JPG

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I think these are Army Service Corps (ASC) Officer cadets accompanied by their NCO instructors.  Quite a number will have been commissioned from the (wartime) ranks.  The more elderly cadets might be former regulars who have perhaps completed their colour service.  Ordinarily I would expect to see such men (if they are so) wearing medal ribbons, but it might be that these were not fitted until passing the course so that during its delivery all cadets are treated as equal.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Thank you very much Frogsmile ... that is much appreciated.     

 

Does this sum up all the help I have been given? ....

"This photograph shows a group of Army Service Corps Officer Cadets and their N.C.O. instructors – the former distinguishable by their white cap bands. 

 

The man standing 4th from left and the four men sitting centrally are wearing a lanyard and no shirt or tie – denoting the rank of N.C.O.  The four men are prominently seated within the group and they are the instructors.

 

The man 4th from left wears a white cap band too so he may be a senior N.C.O. who is going through Officer training, after being promoted in the ranks - due to the shortage of Officers, as the war progressed."

 

Thank you all ... Heather

 

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8 minutes ago, heatherannej said:

Thank you very much Frogsmile ... that is much appreciated.     

 

Does this sum up all the help I have been given? ....

"This photograph shows a group of Army Service Corps Officer Cadets and their N.C.O. instructors – the former distinguishable by their white cap bands. 

 

The man standing 4th from left and the four men sitting centrally are wearing a lanyard and no shirt or tie – denoting the rank of N.C.O.  The four men are prominently seated within the group and they are the instructors.

 

The man 4th from left wears a white cap band too so he may be a senior N.C.O. who is going through Officer training, after being promoted in the ranks - due to the shortage of Officers, as the war progressed."

 

Thank you all ... Heather

 

 

There is useful detail to be found at the following links Heather:

 

1.  http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/training-to-be-a-soldier/officer-training-in-the-british-army-of-1914-1918/

 

2.  

 

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Thanks again for taking the trouble to pass on those links, Frogsmile ... I will check them out.  I'm much obliged to you.  Heather

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