jdproject Posted 26 January , 2018 Share Posted 26 January , 2018 Hello Chaps, I'm searching for a pair of British B5 trench boots to finish of a mannequin display. Clearly a very rare item. If I can't find British made I'd probably settle for a close American made copy. I wondered if they're are any boot experts out there who might tell me if these are British or American. There are no dates nor manufacturer markings. thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasemuseum Posted 27 January , 2018 Share Posted 27 January , 2018 Not B5s but there are two pair of British first war boots in C&T Auctions sale coming up in a few days (30 Jan). The estimates are a bit frightening +24% buyers premium. http://www.candtauctions.co.uk/online-catalogue/ catalogue page 189 Cheers Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdproject Posted 27 January , 2018 Author Share Posted 27 January , 2018 much appreciated Ross. Auction prices are certainly outta my league. cheers, Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasemuseum Posted 27 January , 2018 Share Posted 27 January , 2018 Unfortunately, I shall not be bidding on these either. Good luck with your hunt. Cheers Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmfinch Posted 27 January , 2018 Share Posted 27 January , 2018 Have you considered a replica pair which may be much more affordable? V/R Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdproject Posted 27 January , 2018 Author Share Posted 27 January , 2018 Replica boots are definitely a more reasonable alternative Wayne. .......or perhaps the more abundant American boots at a quarter the cost. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 27 January , 2018 Share Posted 27 January , 2018 17 hours ago, Chasemuseum said: Not B5s but there are two pair of British first war boots in C&T Auctions sale coming up in a few days (30 Jan). The estimates are a bit frightening +24% buyers premium. http://www.candtauctions.co.uk/online-catalogue/ catalogue page 189 Cheers Ross I'd be interested to know why these are not thought to be B5 pattern? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasemuseum Posted 27 January , 2018 Share Posted 27 January , 2018 There are two pair of OR WW1 boots for sale, from the descriptions, they are different patterns, only one pair is photographed in the catalogue. I am not an expert on the various patterns of British Army boots and am not able to endorse either pair as being the B5 pattern or any other specific pattern. The auctioneers have not listed the pattern designation of either pair of boots in their descriptions. I want to leave the classification of these boots to people viewing the auction catalogue and inspecting them at the viewing. If others have the expertise to formally identify the patterns, that's fine, but I cannot. For those that have not seen the two current catalogues, for C&T Auctions, they are worth a look, both are very impressive collections of material. For the material where I feel that I do possess an element of knowledge, the articles to be sold look to be both correct and very good examples. In all cases, it is up to the bidder to make their assessment and this forum is really not the place to endorse or discredit articles currently on the market. Cheers Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 28 January , 2018 Share Posted 28 January , 2018 20 hours ago, GRANVILLE said: I'd be interested to know why these are not thought to be B5 pattern? Always worth a reread of the following: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/topic/206436-british-boots-question/?tab=comments#comment-2032461 Lot 1124 - described as "Rare Great War 1918 Dated Other Ranks Boots" - https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/candt-auctioneers/catalogue-id-srct10068/lot-91c41702-1647-4efc-beca-a86300fa9212 As per Joe's post in the first link, these are "Boots ankle, clump sole with toe case 9902/1918 8-May-18 Toe Case introduced for Troops in Italy". They are spot on and perfectly right, as is the description, and the price is well in line with what you would expect to get for a genuine pair of period issue boots in such excellent condition nowadays unless you get very lucky. Lot 1125 - described as "Great War Period Ankle Boots" - https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/candt-auctioneers/catalogue-id-srct10068/lot-91b0150e-edc4-48bf-9358-a86300fa941c The use of the word "period" and " with spurious large 1915 date stamps to the soles" in the auction description says it all really. This is reflected in the much lower estimate. They lack certain marks you would expect to find in addition to the date, and the general styling (the very rounded toes in particular) is off for what you would expect. 1915 is also a very early date to find on a pair of B5's, so they would be an incredibly early survivor of their type if all was right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 28 January , 2018 Share Posted 28 January , 2018 14 minutes ago, Andrew Upton said: Always worth a reread of the following: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/topic/206436-british-boots-question/?tab=comments#comment-2032461 I still think this thread has become confused. The OP asked if the the boots illustrated in post 1 were thought to be UK or US B5 boots and the answer he was given was 'no'. We then seem to have ended up discussing other boots being auctioned. I'm still curious to know why the boots in post 1 were so quickly dismissed. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 28 January , 2018 Share Posted 28 January , 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, GRANVILLE said: The OP asked if the the boots illustrated in post 1 were thought to be UK or US B5 boots and the answer he was given was 'no'. We then seem to have ended up discussing other boots being auctioned. I'm still curious to know why the boots in post 1 were so quickly dismissed. All the general characteristics point towards them being a pair of American made boots or similar, which would make sense given the OP's location - the overly large toe irons with the raised "nails" and front lip and the differently coloured cloth laces being the two most obvious, eg as commonly found on the 1918 Pershing boot: https://onlinemilitaria.net/products/4751-US-M1918-Pershing-Trench-Boots-Available-to-US-Customers-only/ Edited 28 January , 2018 by Andrew Upton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 28 January , 2018 Share Posted 28 January , 2018 Cheers Andrew, appreciate the clarification. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 28 January , 2018 Share Posted 28 January , 2018 The boots are visually identical to B5s from above and aren't quite the same as any US WW1 boot I know of. They look as if they might be B5s resoled in American use as some US troops were issued with British B5s. Against that is the apparent lack of any markings, assuming they definitely are absent and not just faint or rubbed away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 28 January , 2018 Share Posted 28 January , 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Andrew Upton said: Lot 1124 - described as "Rare Great War 1918 Dated Other Ranks Boots" - https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/candt-auctioneers/catalogue-id-srct10068/lot-91c41702-1647-4efc-beca-a86300fa9212 As per Joe's post in the first link, these are "Boots ankle, clump sole with toe case 9902/1918 8-May-18 Toe Case introduced for Troops in Italy". They are spot on and perfectly right, as is the description, and the price is well in line with what you would expect to get for a genuine pair of period issue boots in such excellent condition nowadays unless you get very lucky. And seemingly approved for use in all theatres in July 1918, with all boots to be made with toe case from September 1918. So very late war and unlikely many pairs got out there before the final days, but yes correct WW1 boots and very hard to come by however atypical. A pair dated 1919 made £1900 before commission in a previous C & T auction. 5 hours ago, Andrew Upton said: Lot 1125 - described as "Great War Period Ankle Boots" - https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/candt-auctioneers/catalogue-id-srct10068/lot-91b0150e-edc4-48bf-9358-a86300fa941c The use of the word "period" and " with spurious large 1915 date stamps to the soles" in the auction description says it all really. This is reflected in the much lower estimate. They lack certain marks you would expect to find in addition to the date, and the general styling (the very rounded toes in particular) is off for what you would expect. 1915 is also a very early date to find on a pair of B5's, so they would be an incredibly early survivor of their type if all was right. Quite. Edited 28 January , 2018 by wainfleet Clarification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 29 January , 2018 Share Posted 29 January , 2018 10 hours ago, wainfleet said: The boots are visually identical to B5s from above and aren't quite the same as any US WW1 boot I know of. They look as if they might be B5s resoled in American use as some US troops were issued with British B5s. Against that is the apparent lack of any markings, assuming they definitely are absent and not just faint or rubbed away. I have to say I'm glad someone else was of a similar mind to myself. I assumed I must be failing to see something in the OP's photos of post 1 and in fact I agree entirely with Wainfleet on this. To me the boots certainly looked like British B5 pattern boots, resoled and metaled to suit a purpose - most likely someone who was expected to do a lot of kneeling. Quite probably post-war, but who knows? I'm sure the conservators would have something to say on this, but were they mine, for the sake of the leather they would be given a good coat of dubbin or polish to get some life back into them. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 1 April , 2018 Share Posted 1 April , 2018 On the subject of boot types, this original article might be of interest. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdproject Posted 8 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 8 April , 2018 Very interesting David. Thanks for posting. Can't imagine fighting a war in the African saddles. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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