4thGordons Posted 20 January , 2018 Share Posted 20 January , 2018 (edited) I recently bought this SD Jacket in an online auction with limited pictures -- thinking I was getting a 1922 Pattern Service Dress - however now I am not sure exactly what I have and would appreciate observations of experts. The jacket is unmarked apart from one very faded stamp inside the left breast that appears to be something over W^D over a single number but I cannot read any more than that at all and even tweaking the contrast etc on the pic doesn't help me. There is no sign of a label (paper or cloth - anywhere) The material is softer, "thicker" and more "woolly" than other jackets I have The collar has two darts The finish also seems less precise (ie the edging around the pockets etc seems almost like the "rough cut" US tunics with fairly ragged edges (pockets and rifle patches) outside the stitching) There is quite a bit of colour variation as though made from two different bolts of cloth, the right rifle patch and three of four pocket flaps are distinctly lighter and greener than the rest of the jacket. The lining is sandy tan (not greenish at all and definitely not white!) and is very soft - actually "feels" old. The shoulder straps are also lined with this material which is not something I have seen before. Pocket flaps are also lined. The Cpl rank badges appear to have khaki drill backing like they came for or were intended for a KD jacket. The overseas chevrons on the lower sleeve are suspiciously bright blue and in excellent condition The collar badges appear to have been in place for a long time but it is obviously hard to tell, the single collar fastening looks period/aged, as do the belt hooks. The buttons are all marked "superior quality" a couple have different colour thread and appear to have been reattached at some point SO -- I thought I was buying a 1922 Pattern SD - now I am wondering if it is an out and out repro.... or something else. Lots of pics attached below - more can be supplied if there is something I have not shown that would be useful: Thanks in advance, Chris Edited 20 January , 2018 by 4thGordons corrected left/right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 20 January , 2018 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2018 (edited) BTW I should perhaps add here I am not raising any concerns about the seller or the auction or anything of that nature, I am just curious to know exactly what I have here. It appears to be an example similar in some respects to the Jacket shown here (and is also badged to a Canadian unit). Chris JMB1943 has provided me with some enhancements of the stamp it is very light but I will attempt some new pics in daylight Edited 20 January , 2018 by 4thGordons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave1418 Posted 20 January , 2018 Share Posted 20 January , 2018 Hi Lanark and Renfrewshire are not a British unit but Canadian I believe so the jacket may be of Canadian manufacture. I have seen another jacket some years ago which was also made with different shades and textures of material. It did look a little unusual but it was genuine. Regards Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 20 January , 2018 Share Posted 20 January , 2018 Chris, If the Wikipedia article is to be believed, the collar badges are either from the early 1900s or from 2011 onward when the unit had the 42nd designation. So, a clue on the authenticity of your item probably lies in your assessment of whether the badges appear to be properly aged. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 20 January , 2018 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2018 17 minutes ago, gordon92 said: Chris, If the Wikipedia article is to be believed, the collar badges are either from the early 1900s or from 2011 onward when the unit had the 42nd designation. So, a clue on the authenticity of your item probably lies in your assessment of whether the badges appear to be properly aged. Mike I would not really have the expertise to do that Mike -- but - wouldn't a more recent badge be "staybright" and/or have the "Queen's Crown" on them? Unless of course they are reproductions of earlier ones and again I am not sure I have sufficient experience to tell. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 20 January , 2018 Share Posted 20 January , 2018 2 hours ago, 4thGordons said: I would not really have the expertise to do that Mike -- but - wouldn't a more recent badge be "staybright" and/or have the "Queen's Crown" on them? Unless of course they are reproductions of earlier ones and again I am not sure I have sufficient experience to tell. Chris Chris, It appears that the collar badges are the proper pattern for this militia regiment that was worn pre-WW1 and possibly after the war until 1920. See https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Pre-WW1-Canadian-Collar-Badge-42nd-Lanark-and-Renfrew-Infantry/142420048278?hash=item2128e57996:g:GmEAAOSwMvtZSHOf. From your photos, the badges do look like brass. I don't think the British pattern 5-button jacket was used pre-WW1. Perhaps, your jacket derives from the 1918-1920 period after the CEF was disbanded. This would be consistent with the khaki linings. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 21 January , 2018 Share Posted 21 January , 2018 Chris, is it possible to see some really good close ups of the double-darts in the collar from the inside, and the overseas service chevrons (inside and outside ideally)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 21 January , 2018 Author Share Posted 21 January , 2018 Hi Andrew - ok had a go -- perhaps I am too close here - let me know. Outside of darts Inside of darts Outside of chevrons Inside. It's dark so I had to take these with artificial light(Flash) - let me know if these work? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 23 January , 2018 Share Posted 23 January , 2018 (edited) On 1/21/2018 at 01:36, 4thGordons said: Hi Andrew - ok had a go -- perhaps I am too close here - let me know... It's dark so I had to take these with artificial light(Flash) - let me know if these work? Just a tad close, but workable I was mostly trying to see if there was any evidence of an extra "dart" having been formed into the collar, which is a trick sometimes done to post-war jackets by dealers who know a little more about how these jackets should be than most. No evidence of that that I can see. The chevrons stitching again look a little untidy but not screaming wrong for the period. Have you tried a blacklight over the jacket to see if any stitching on these or anywhere else lights up? My gut feeling at the moment is in line with Mike - not wartime, but something very early post-war perhaps. The only thing I really don't like is those chevrons, those are very wrong for both the period and the type of uniform used on, and I would hazard a guess are at best a later addition, which makes me worry about the rest somewhat... Edit - to me, it also looks like there are additional holes behind the collar badge/s, suggesting these have been changed at some point. Again not impossible to be a genuine period change but... Edited 23 January , 2018 by Andrew Upton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 23 January , 2018 Author Share Posted 23 January , 2018 (edited) Thanks, Andrew. I did try a blacklight and nothing showed up as far as the stitching is concerned (or anything else) I paid particular attention to the chevrons which were really the cause of my angst but even those did not glow. The idea that is it an early post-war jacket (perhaps issued upon return?) seems plausible and I'm happy with that. I agree that the OS chevrons are jarringly bright and "off" so later addition to tart up the jacket - or.... as you say casts a shadow over the rest but the price what one would pay for a 1922 SD Jacket I can live with that, even with the dodgy chevrons! Thank you to all who contributed Chris I noticed the "holes" to which you refer -- I have not investigated them fully - and have not removed the badges that are there, but I think at least one of the "holes" is a minor moth nip as opposed to a hole. There ARE holes in the epaulettes - clearly brass has been removed from there and I am trying to discover what would be best to place back on it "Canada" titles or something else Edited 23 January , 2018 by 4thGordons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 23 January , 2018 Share Posted 23 January , 2018 4 minutes ago, 4thGordons said: I agree that the OS chevrons are jarringly bright and "off" so later addition to tart up the jacket - or.... as you say casts a shadow over the rest but the price what one would pay for a 1922 SD Jacket I can live with that, even with the dodgy chevrons! My apologies, I meant the rank chevrons, KD type on an SD jacket... I could possibly believe the blue chevrons had retained their colour if very carefully stored so again not impossible but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 23 January , 2018 Share Posted 23 January , 2018 I would also say that the collar badges are genuine whether or not they are native to the jacket. Yes, adding CANADA shoulder titles would be safe. There are multiple legitimate patterns of these. See below for examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 25 January , 2018 Share Posted 25 January , 2018 I think that's an original and untouched very late war Canadian production jacket. I haven't seen the lined shoulder straps before either but they don't appear on later SD so that doesn't point either way. I have seen a poorer finish and mixed colours before on late war British SD jackets. The armhole reinforcing stitch, present here, is sometimes absent from 1918 on - another early indicator. The rank chevrons are wacky but in wartime there was a lot of make-do and leeway. Overall I like it and it's certainly a much better purchase than any "1922 pattern". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 25 January , 2018 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2018 6 hours ago, wainfleet said: I think that's an original and untouched very late war Canadian production jacket. I haven't seen the lined shoulder straps before either but they don't appear on later SD so that doesn't point either way. I have seen a poorer finish and mixed colours before on late war British SD jackets. The armhole reinforcing stitch, present here, is sometimes absent from 1918 on - another early indicator. The rank chevrons are wacky but in wartime there was a lot of make-do and leeway. Overall I like it and it's certainly a much better purchase than any "1922 pattern". Thanks very much for the input. Much appreciated. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now