One Overseas Chevron query

[TEW]

Before I embark on a long-winded question here's the abbreviated version;

 

Could a man who arrived in France May 1917 and then evacuated home in Jan 1918 never to return to France be wearing a single (blue?) chevron in a 1919 photo.

 

Thanks

TEW

[Stebie9173]

In short. Yes.

 

He would have been eligible for the first blue chevron in May 1917. Mainly uninterrupted overseas service would have made him eligible for chevron #2 in May 1918, so one overseas chevron is what I would expect for this man's overseas service.

 

 

Steve.

[TEW]

Thanks Steve,

 

I have the problem that I have a photo of him with one chevron and a wound stripe. I know he was blown up and buried by a shell 31/12/1917 but admitted to 149 FA 1/1/18 with NAD (no appreciable disease). Eventually admitted to Seale Hayne Dec 1918 with Psychasthenia & Stammering.

 

No other woundings known about but cannot find a casualty list entry for him, have manually trawled Jan/Feb 1918 lists and tried thegenealogist & FMP's casualty lists to no avail.

 

His signature on the photo matches that on his attestation form and medals CRV so I'm 100% I have the right man. His Pension sheet shows admitted to Seale Hayne where the photo was taken.

 

I wondered last night if the chevron was supposed to denote 1 year service abroad while he only has 7 months service abroad. In which case I was thinking perhaps he borrowed a jacket with wound stripe & chevron for the photo!!

 

The wound stripe still troubles me, I have found men of his battalion wounded at the end of Dec 1917 and they show up a month later. I doubt the FA diagnosing him NAD would earn him a stripe at the time and the 'being blown up by shell' incident seems to only come from his own statement otherwise he has diptheria, NAD, anemia, fever and later Psychasthenia.

 

I'm certain that to have a wound stripe he must be on a list somewhere.

Thanks

TEW

 

[Stebie9173]

The overseas chevron was "awarded" at the start of each year overseas so one would denote between 1 and 365 days overseas.

 

Steve.

[ss002d6252]

4 hours ago, TEW said:

Thanks Steve,

 

I have the problem that I have a photo of him with one chevron and a wound stripe. I know he was blown up and buried by a shell 31/12/1917 but admitted to 149 FA 1/1/18 with NAD (no appreciable disease). Eventually admitted to Seale Hayne Dec 1918 with Psychasthenia & Stammering.

 

No other woundings known about but cannot find a casualty list entry for him, have manually trawled Jan/Feb 1918 lists and tried thegenealogist & FMP's casualty lists to no avail.

 

His signature on the photo matches that on his attestation form and medals CRV so I'm 100% I have the right man. His Pension sheet shows admitted to Seale Hayne where the photo was taken.

 

I wondered last night if the chevron was supposed to denote 1 year service abroad while he only has 7 months service abroad. In which case I was thinking perhaps he borrowed a jacket with wound stripe & chevron for the photo!!

 

The wound stripe still troubles me, I have found men of his battalion wounded at the end of Dec 1917 and they show up a month later. I doubt the FA diagnosing him NAD would earn him a stripe at the time and the 'being blown up by shell' incident seems to only come from his own statement otherwise he has diptheria, NAD, anemia, fever and later Psychasthenia.

 

I'm certain that to have a wound stripe he must be on a list somewhere.

Thanks

TEW

 

I'm sure that they issued clarification after the strip was introduced to state that a man had to be on a casualty list before it could be issued - that suggests some men did perhaps slip through initially.

Who is he ?

p.s. Did you ever find Private Preston's details ?

Craig

Edited 17 January , 2018 by ss002d6252

[TEW]

Or perhaps his ailment wasn't considered a 'wound' until much later and he is on a list that's either missing from FMP or The Genealogist etc or not showing via the OCR?

 

The man is Pte. 763267 Edmund Evans 1/28 Londons. Two sets of files on FMP. Lived till 96 years old!

 

Preston!! No not winkled him out from under his bed yet. I have a spreadsheet of all 465 Prestons issued with SWB and eliminated those by rank, age, date of discharge and unit but having been working on the SWB rolls for some time it may be that either his entry is missing or he may not have claimed one. Complicated issues are arising from examining SWB rolls! But that's another post.

 

All I really have to go on is his 'Story' as told to Hurst post-recovery and bearing in mind he had amnesia for 10 months and he may have embellished a bit it's going to be a long haul.

 

It appears from the story that Preston turned 20 between June & Sept 1918 BUT the story is that he enlisted in Jan 1916 and went to France Oct 1916. I doubt if Hurst took on board the difference between attesting, being called up, mobilized.

 

I'm now checking through for all night time aeroplane bombing incidents recorded in division diaries around the full moon 1/9/1917. I have about 20 possible air-raids!

 

As far as these men's stories, some pan out as told as far as checking Bn. diaries. Rfn. Bradshaw featured in War Neuroses at Netley is quite a different character. He claimed to have been shot in the leg during an attack, left out in nomansland until found by bearers and was then blown up by a shell along with the bearers. However, the diaries show the attack was called off and the men returned to billets. He may have had a GSW to leg and then evacuated to the UK and then deserted from command depot. Spent a year as a deserter in London contracted syphilis and handed himself in. Treated for Syphilis and then transfered to Netley due to side effects of the Salvarsan (which is the shaky legs in the film). He arrived at Netley a few days before filming started and ended up immortalised forever for deserting. His poor old Mum thought he'd gone missing in France as he didn't contact her.

 

TEW

[ss002d6252]

On 18/01/2018 at 14:37, TEW said:

Or perhaps his ailment wasn't considered a 'wound' until much later and he is on a list that's either missing from FMP or The Genealogist etc or not showing via the OCR?

 

The man is Pte. 763267 Edmund Evans 1/28 Londons. Two sets of files on FMP. Lived till 96 years old!

 

Preston!! No not winkled him out from under his bed yet. I have a spreadsheet of all 465 Prestons issued with SWB and eliminated those by rank, age, date of discharge and unit but having been working on the SWB rolls for some time it may be that either his entry is missing or he may not have claimed one. Complicated issues are arising from examining SWB rolls! But that's another post. 

 

All I really have to go on is his 'Story' as told to Hurst post-recovery and bearing in mind he had amnesia for 10 months and he may have embellished a bit it's going to be a long haul.

 

It appears from the story that Preston turned 20 between June & Sept 1918 BUT the story is that he enlisted in Jan 1916 and went to France Oct 1916. I doubt if Hurst took on board the difference between attesting, being called up, mobilized. 

 

I'm now checking through for all night time aeroplane bombing incidents recorded in division diaries around the full moon 1/9/1917. I have about 20 possible air-raids!

 

As far as these men's stories, some pan out as told as far as checking Bn. diaries. Rfn. Bradshaw featured in War Neuroses at Netley is quite a different character. He claimed to have been shot in the leg during an attack, left out in nomansland until found by bearers and was then blown up by a shell along with the bearers. However, the diaries show the attack was called off and the men returned to billets. He may have had a GSW to leg and then evacuated to the UK and then deserted from command depot. Spent a year as a deserter in London contracted syphilis and handed himself in. Treated for Syphilis and then transfered to Netley due to side effects of the Salvarsan (which is the shaky legs in the film). He arrived at Netley a few days before filming started and ended up immortalised forever for deserting. His poor old Mum thought he'd gone missing in France as he didn't contact her. 

  

TEW

I assume you may have looked at this one but he pops up in the new Pension Ledgers

#242328 Private Preston - 6th North Staffs. Discharged 5/8/1918 with Shell Shock. Born 1897. Enlisted 17 June 1916. (extra info from other records)

 

He's the only Preston born 1897/1898 who has a pension entry for shell shock.

Craig

[trooper23]

Not sure about 1918 but nowadays NAD refers to Nothing Abnormal Discovered - not grossly different from No Appreciable Disease but depends of course if they regarded 'shell shock' as a disease

[TEW]

Craig, no not seen that record yet and not sure what the pension ledgers are? His age and date of discharge all look good. Very excited to follow this up on Monday. Many thanks for the heads up. Now I'm wondering if 6/North Staffs are on my list of air raid targets, not home at present!

TEW

[ss002d6252]

8 minutes ago, TEW said:

Craig, no not seen that record yet and not sure what the pension ledgers are? His age and date of discharge all look good. Very excited to follow this up on Monday. Many thanks for the heads up. Now I'm wondering if 6/North Staffs are on my list of air raid targets, not home at present!

TEW

It's the new set of records on Fold3 - they are the records held by the Western Front Association and digitized by Ancestry. I believe that there are index cards to follow along in due course to the ledger entry, the cards apparently sometimes have additional information.

 

I was looking for some men of my own and remembered Preston so I though a quick check couldn't do any harm.

 

Craig

Edited 10 November , 2018 by ss002d6252