What does the crossed flag signaller's badge actually denote?

[Carter]

As far as I have been able to find out, the crossed flags on the sleeve denote someone who has passed a signaller's course.  Did all signallers attend the same type of course however( e.g. did a visual signaller do the same course as a telegraphist and did they both get the crossed flags)?  Also, did dispatch riders (horse or motorcycle) wear this badge at any time?

[FROGSMILE]

The signallers course comprised initially visual signalling using flags (semaphore), mirrors (heliographs), using reflected sunlight and, at night flashes generated by limelight lamps, and morse code using land line cables and morse keys.  Later, voice communication was added using the rapidly evolving field telephones and land line usually but not always buried underground. For these skills, once tested for competence, signallers earned the award of the crossed flags badge.  Higher level signallers of the Royal Engineers Signal Service were also trained on embryo radio sets and as motorcycle dispatch riders.  The Royal Artillery and Royal Flying Corps also developed specialised signallers for the control of gunfire, but these were usually marked by blue and white cloth  arm bands (aka ‘brassards’) as well as the crossed flags badge.

Edited 15 January , 2018 by FROGSMILE

[Carter]

The reason I posed the question is that I have Royal Artillery gunner in breeches and spurs, carrying a riding crop around 3 foot in length, with the crossed flags.  Any guesses as to his role?  Would he be a postillion rider who then took up the role of signaller once the guns were deployed?

Sorry, that should have read "I have a photo of a Royal Artillery gunner".

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Carter said:

As far as I have been able to find out, the crossed flags on the sleeve denote someone who has passed a signaller's course.  Did all signallers attend the same type of course however( e.g. did a visual signaller do the same course as a telegraphist and did they both get the crossed flags)?  Also, did dispatch riders (horse or motorcycle) wear this badge at any time?

My Grandfather served in the 4th Canadian Infantry Works Coy and he told me he was a motorcycle Dispatch Rider. I've been doing some research on DR and the Cdn Works coys. I have a picture of Granddad wearing crossed flags and posing indoors holding a "swagger stick(?)". His unit was building and maintaining light RR but he was not an engineer nor a RR troop. Signallers were typically engineers and DRs were typically Cpls. Granddad was neither. He was awarded an MSM.

[FROGSMILE]

9 hours ago, DRHunter said:

My Grandfather served in the 4th Canadian Infantry Works Coy and he told me he was a motorcycle Dispatch Rider. I've been doing some research on DR and the Cdn Works coys. I have a picture of Granddad wearing crossed flags and posing indoors holding a "swagger stick(?)". His unit was building and maintaining light RR but he was not an engineer nor a RR troop. Signallers were typically engineers and DRs were typically Cpls. Granddad was neither. He was awarded an MSM.

 

All combat Arms of the Service (Army) had signallers, including the infantry, so statistically there were far more infantry, cavalry and artillery signallers than engineer signallers.  The famously published private soldier of the Royal Welsh Fusiliers, Frank Richards, was a signaller and recorded his experiences in his second  book, Old Soldiers Never Die.  The combat and Service Support Arms that quickly developed motorised and mechanical transport, such as Royal Engineers, Army Service Corps and Royal Artillery, all operated motorcycle dispatch riders.  So useful were these latter in negotiating shell damaged terrain that most formation headquarters employed them.

Edited 15 January , 2018 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

11 hours ago, Carter said:

The reason I posed the question is that I have Royal Artillery gunner in breeches and spurs, carrying a riding crop around 3 foot in length, with the crossed flags.  Any guesses as to his role?  Would he be a postillion rider who then took up the role of signaller once the guns were deployed?

Sorry, that should have read "I have a photo of a Royal Artillery gunner".

 

Your interpretation of his potential role seems eminently likely to me, although bear in mind that signallers could sometimes be redeployed to other roles, but would not ordinarily remove the badge for their qualification.

[Ron Clifton]

11 hours ago, Carter said:

Would he be a postillion rider who then took up the role of signaller once the guns were deployed?

I rather doubt this, though it is not impossible. Drivers and signallers had different roles, and trained (and therefore "badged") signallers would be needed to maintain communications within the battery, especially with Forward Observation Officers. Drivers would have needed to stay with their horses when the battery was  in action, ready to move up at short notice if the guns needed to be moved.

 

It is possible is that a number of Drivers might have been trained as additional signallers to replace casualties.

 

Ron

[squirrel]

Signallers were also responsible for repairing broken telephone lines...

 

8^th Battalion the York and Lancaster Regiment attached Signal Section

                No.16396 Private Harold Barker

For bravery and devotion to duty on June 15^th and 16^th 1918.

During the intense enemy barrage he worked continuously on a main

telephone line which had been cut to pieces. His companion was killed

while working but Private Barker carried on mending the line unaided

until another man was sent to help him. The second man was killed while

mending the line with him but Private Barker put the line through alone.

Upon his return he immediately volunteered to go out through a barrage to

mend another line, although he had had nothing to eat for over fifteen hours.

Private Barker showed throughout absolute disregard of danger and a devotion

to duty hardly to be surpassed.

 

Awarded the Distinguished Conduct Medal for the above.

 

                                                                                                                H. Jordon

                                                                                                       Brigadier General

[Carter]

I agree that drivers would have to look after the horses once unlimbered, but I believe generally one man looked after four horses, meaning half the drivers would have been available for other roles while the guns were deployed, and would therefore probably have had secondary trades.  I am prepared to stand corrected on this!

[Chasemuseum]

Signallers existed within a wide variety of units within the division/corps/army. The Signals Corps only came into existence after the war. Considering the Infantry Division, there are the "Field Engineering Companies", where the soldiers have the appointment "Sapper". Initially only at platoon strength and by the end of the war, there is a company of RE Signallers. Within the infantry battalions and the field artillery brigades, there are soldiers trained as signallers but belonging to their regiment or RA, with the appointment of Private, or Gunner. They are responsible for the operation, emplacement and maintenance of signals equipment within their unit. Their training as a signaller will be at a school run by the RE Signals and they will be entitled to wear the crossed flags as a skill at arms badge.

 

The blue and white brassard by comparison designates a soldier as working as a signaller, just as various other brassards designate the wearer as being actively assigned to other special duties. This indicates to officers and military police that the soldier is likely to have authority to be moving in areas as an individual where  private soldiers would normally only be found as a party, also that if urgent communications assistance is required that this is the soldier to approach.

 

Within field artillery, "signals" and "driver" are both skill at arms trades. You cannot do both at once. A soldier will be primarily employed as one or the other. However having a number of soldiers multi-skilled is extremely useful to manage times when the numbers of a trade are down for any reason (casualties, illness, leave, called to other duties ...). Similarly "layer" and "gunner" are also skill at arms trades. 

 

In the field each driver has the full-time care of two horses and all the harness related to these two animals. Typically for an 18pr or 4.5 howitzer, there is the gun, the gun limber and 6 horses to pull the gun limber with 3 drivers. Then for ammunition support there are 2 ammunition wagon + limber sets each with 6 horses and 3 drivers. So 1 gun requires 18 horses and 9 drivers. Effectively half of the men in an artillery battery were drivers. When choosing how to allocate multi-skill training, driver/signaller is an obvious choice as these men are more mobile and likely to have/need a better knowledge of the area of operation than the gun crews. 

Cheers

Ross

[Carter]

Thanks for that.  Am I correct however that one driver would be tending four horses when unlimbered (as in the cavalry), or were all drivers detailed to look after the horses at these times?  In other words, were half the drivers doing other stuff when the guns were in action?

[Chasemuseum]

One driver cares for two horses. He has to do everything required for those horses and for their harness equipment. For the cavalry/ mounted infantry, each man is responsible for the care of his own horse and equipment. Only when dismounted for combat, one man takes custody of 4 animals so that the horses are readily available when required. That man is not unsaddling, feeding, watering or servicing the harness of the horses at this time.

 

A horse requires substantially more "time off' every day to feed, water and sleep than a man does. In an emergency a horse can be hard pressed for several days, but this is at a very real cost. If overworked a horse will "breakdown". If this occurs, the horse will take several months to recover. During the 2nd South African War (Boer War) the wastage of horses was incredible.  The practical logistics of the limitations of the railways across the region made this detestable policy necessary. In general, during that campaign as horses brokedown they were shot. It was too difficult in most cases to transport horses back to where they could be cared for and recover, also two slow. Some horses were sent back, but only a small proportion.

 

Some useful books on this subject include:

Horses and Saddlery Major G Tylden

Manual - Army Service Corps Training - Part 1 1909

Manual - Army Service Corps Training - Part 3 Transport 1911

 

 

Cheers

Ross

 

[Muerrisch]

On 16/01/2018 at 23:21, Chasemuseum said:

Signallers existed within a wide variety of units within the division/corps/army. The Signals Corps only came into existence after the war. Considering the Infantry Division, there are the "Field Engineering Companies", where the soldiers have the appointment "Sapper". Initially only at platoon strength and by the end of the war, there is a company of RE Signallers. Within the infantry battalions and the field artillery brigades, there are soldiers trained as signallers but belonging to their regiment or RA, with the appointment of Private, or Gunner. They are responsible for the operation, emplacement and maintenance of signals equipment within their unit. Their training as a signaller will be at a school run by the RE Signals and they will be entitled to wear the crossed flags as a skill at arms badge.

 

The blue and white brassard by comparison designates a soldier as working as a signaller, just as various other brassards designate the wearer as being actively assigned to other special duties. This indicates to officers and military police that the soldier is likely to have authority to be moving in areas as an individual where  private soldiers would normally only be found as a party, also that if urgent communications assistance is required that this is the soldier to approach.

 

Within field artillery, "signals" and "driver" are both skill at arms trades. You cannot do both at once. A soldier will be primarily employed as one or the other. However having a number of soldiers multi-skilled is extremely useful to manage times when the numbers of a trade are down for any reason (casualties, illness, leave, called to other duties ...). Similarly "layer" and "gunner" are also skill at arms trades. 

 

In the field each driver has the full-time care of two horses and all the harness related to these two animals. Typically for an 18pr or 4.5 howitzer, there is the gun, the gun limber and 6 horses to pull the gun limber with 3 drivers. Then for ammunition support there are 2 ammunition wagon + limber sets each with 6 horses and 3 drivers. So 1 gun requires 18 horses and 9 drivers. Effectively half of the men in an artillery battery were drivers. When choosing how to allocate multi-skill training, driver/signaller is an obvious choice as these men are more mobile and likely to have/need a better knowledge of the area of operation than the gun crews. 

Cheers

Ross

Just for the record

 

Driver and gunner were RANKS not trades ....... No badge as such but Prize badges available

Layer was an appointment. Badge worn upper right arm

Signaller was indeed a skill at arms. Badge worn lower left.

[ProntoAust]

My recollection is that Despatch Riders ("Don R", on horseback, motor cycles or motor vehicles) wore one white and blue brassard on left sleeve, above elbow. He travelled between headquarters of units and formations to a published timetable, similar to a postman. A Special Despatch Rider ("SDR") wore two brassards, one on each sleeve, above the elbow. As the title implies, he was called out by a commander to make a special delivery of a "one-off" despatch. Whilst a "Don R" had priority at intersections etc, an "SDR" had absolute priority everywhere.

[Chasemuseum]

Thankyou. I have seen photos with soldiers wearing a single brassard and others wearing two and always wondered why a soldier would wear two brassards.

Cheers

Ross T