Ancestry to digitise WFA Pension Records

[rolt968]

For anyone who does not subscribe to the WFA Bulletin (or whose copy has not arrived yet. )

Ancestry is to digitise and make available the Pension Records held by the WFA. (latest Bulletin p 30).

 

RM

Edited 18 December , 2017 by rolt968

[ss002d6252]

40 minutes ago, rolt968 said:

For anyone who does not subscribe to the WFA Bulletin (or whose copy has not arrived yet. )

Ancestry is to digitise and make available the Pension Records held by the WFA. (latest Bulletin p 30).

 

RM

Excellent, I had a feeling it was coming. Does it indicate when ?

 

Craig

Edited 18 December , 2017 by ss002d6252

[westkent78]

And just as importantly does it mention whether they're going to farm it out to Fold3 or allow normal Ancestry subscribers to access it like the war diaries and medal rolls?

 

Matthew

[ss002d6252]

3 minutes ago, westkent78 said:

And just as importantly does it mention whether they're going to farm it out to Fold3 or allow normal Ancestry subscribers to access it like the war diaries and medal rolls?

 

Matthew

Yep, I fear the same.

Craig

[charlie962]

2 hours ago, rolt968 said:

Ancestry

oh, with their extraordinary hit or miss search facilities..

[rolt968]

I was wondering, since WFA members now have logons, if there would be a portal through the WFA site.

 

I don't think that a date for start of use was given but will check.

 

RM

[Ron da Valli]

I have had a look at my copy and there doesn't appear to be a date specified. There is mention of WFA members being updated over the "coming months" so it won't be anytime soon. 

[keithmroberts]

There is no mention of a date, and there is also an agreement that WFA members will have access to the records without Ancestry membership. I would rather wait a while in the hope that the indexation is done to a better standard that the one that we have been accustomed to. I suspect that my hope is unrealistic, but one must hope.

[Guest]

   Could folk look out for any indications of another little problem-  redaction.  As the pension records contain data on those living until fairly recently, is there any indication of any level of redaction-in the manner of the 1939 National Register on FMP?

[Jervis]

Excuse the ignorance, but what are the WFA pension records and how do they differ from the existing set of pension records available on fold3 and FMP?

 

Thanks 

[ss002d6252]

27 minutes ago, Jervis said:

Excuse the ignorance, but what are the WFA pension records and how do they differ from the existing set of pension records available on fold3 and FMP?

 

Thanks 

 They are cards which contain details of the pension awards which were paid  - samples here

[Jervis]

Thanks Craig. Looking forward to searching these records. 

[Hedley Malloch]

Am I right in saying that as it stands at the moment WFA members have to pay for access?  I seem to remember doing so.

Ancestry will give better access.  At the moment a WFA officer has to go into a garage, find the records, copy them and send them to whoever has ordered them.  It should speed this process up.

I assume that there is some payback for the WFA.  I wonder how much.  Nonetheless it is sad to see yet another database created and paid for out of taxpayers' money, given to a private profit-making organisation, with a pay-booth on the door.

 

 

[ss002d6252]

52 minutes ago, Hedley Malloch said:

Am I right in saying that as it stands at the moment WFA members have to pay for access?  I seem to remember doing so.

Ancestry will give better access.  At the moment a WFA officer has to go into a garage, find the records, copy them and send them to whoever has ordered them.  It should speed this process up.

I assume that there is some payback for the WFA.  I wonder how much.  Nonetheless it is sad to see yet another database created and paid for out of taxpayers' money, given to a private profit-making organisation, with a pay-booth on the door.

 

 

It was something £15-£20 off the top of my head for access, not sure if WFA members got  a discount or not. I think they've suspended it whilst the records are being digitised.

Craig

Edited 21 December , 2017 by ss002d6252

[robertb]

The facts are this:

 

 

 

Page 1.pdf

Page 2.pdf

[Guest]

On 12/19/2017 at 20:23, ss002d6252 said:

 They are cards which contain details of the pension awards which were paid  - samples here

 

It says Arnold Ridley received a GSW, gunshot wound in the hand, but that is not accurate as it was a wound from grabbing a German bayonet. The term GSW, as we know,  was a catch-all term for a wound be it shrapnel, shell fragment etc etc.

 

Mike

[ss002d6252]

15 minutes ago, Skipman said:

 

It says Arnold Ridley received a GSW, gunshot wound in the hand, but that is not accurate as it was a wound from grabbing a German bayonet. The term GSW, as we know,  was a catch-all term for a wound be it shrapnel, shell fragment etc etc.

 

Mike

Interesting to see once again that GSW was rather used in an 'inclusive' manner.

 

Craig

[Guest]

   The Stand To! article finishes by speaking of "coming months". Is there any knowledge out there of a projected finish date for this?

[keithmroberts]

While checks were possible the fee was I think £25.  I really don't want to guess how long it will take to digitise these cards. Much presumably  depends whether the names of dependents are also included and made searchable.  The work will presumably be sent to one of the "transcription houses" in India that get most if not all the work for Ancestry and FmP.  The usual challenge of quality control will surely apply.

 

Keith

[MaureenE]

5 hours ago, Hedley Malloch said:

 

I assume that there is some payback for the WFA.  I wonder how much.  Nonetheless it is sad to see yet another database created and paid for out of taxpayers' money, given to a private profit-making organisation, with a pay-booth on the door.

 

The link given by Craig in post 11, which I believe was  originally written in 2012 says

 

"The Western Front Association (WFA) is delighted to announce that it has secured the safe storage and preservation of a major archive of over six million Great War soldiers' pension record cards.

Some two years ago, the WFA learned that the Ministry of Defence (MoD) was no longer able to retain and manage its archive of Great War soldiers' pension records cards and related archives. The MoD had held these cards, passed to it from prior custodians, all of which date from the time of the conflict.

There was a possibility that the records would have had to be destroyed unless they could be passed for safe keeping to a reputable organisation. The WFA has, in this time, made a study and catalogued the primary information for of each group of records in the archive, and arranged the safe transfer and storage of the records to the WFA's secure premises"

 

It seems to me that it is rather unlikely that WFA would have had the funds to digitise these records for free access . It is surely better that they be available on a site such as Ancestry, which many people subscribe to, or have free access to in places such as local libraries, rather than on  a pay WFA site.

 

If WFA had not taken the records, perhaps they would have been destroyed. Surly digitised records on Ancestry, even if it is private profit-making organisation, is a better outcome?

 

Of course you could argue that the MOD could have has the records digitised, but as someone who does not live in the UK, I would have to say the impression I get is that digitisation of records or books in libraries seems to be a very  low government  priority, either from lack of money or lack of interest or both.

 

Cheers

Maureen

 

 

 

[ss002d6252]

6 minutes ago, Maureene said:

The link given by Craig in post 11, which I believe was  originally written in 2012 says

 

"The Western Front Association (WFA) is delighted to announce that it has secured the safe storage and preservation of a major archive of over six million Great War soldiers' pension record cards.

Some two years ago, the WFA learned that the Ministry of Defence (MoD) was no longer able to retain and manage its archive of Great War soldiers' pension records cards and related archives. The MoD had held these cards, passed to it from prior custodians, all of which date from the time of the conflict.

There was a possibility that the records would have had to be destroyed unless they could be passed for safe keeping to a reputable organisation. The WFA has, in this time, made a study and catalogued the primary information for of each group of records in the archive, and arranged the safe transfer and storage of the records to the WFA's secure premises"

 

It seems to me that it is rather unlikely that WFA would have had the funds to digitise these records for free access . It is surely better that they be available on a site such as Ancestry, which many people subscribe to, or have free access to in places such as local libraries, rather than on  a pay WFA site.

 

If WFA had not taken the records, perhaps they would have been destroyed. Surly digitised records on Ancestry, even if it is private profit-making organisation, is a better outcome?

 

Of course you could argue that the MOD could have has the records digitised, but as someone who does not live in the UK, I would have to say the impression I get is that digitisation of records or books in libraries seems to be a very  low government  priority, either from lack of money or lack of interest or both.

 

Cheers

Maureen

 

 

 

You get the right impression. I look at what other countries manage and it's a sad sight.

 

Craig

[Hedley Malloch]

Maureen,

I am not criticising the WFA at all. They have done a great job in rescuing the pension records. They probably have no choice but to give the digitising task to Ancestry. But putting into private profit-making hands parts of our national heritage and key archive sources - sources which were built with public money - is part of a wider strategy which socialises costs and privatises profits. In this case it is erecting a toll both on an important data source.  This blocks education and impedes cultural awareness.

But it is happening everywhere. I want a copy photo of a company war memorial for publication and I have been told that it is copyright and I will have to pay £83 for it. The memorial was built with pennies taken out of pay-packets in the 1920s.  This money was not given so that 90 years later an entrepreneur could charge us to see it. Quite the opposite - access was intended to be free to everyone.

I would take issue with your point that Ancestry is a cheap way of making this information available. Ancestry and FMP are expensive. As for libraries, my local one has started to reduce the number of computers and restrict its opening hours.

As Craig says the situation here is thrown into stark relief when compared with what goes on other countries. The Irish have digitised their army pension records and they are free to everyone. In France a wide range of military records held at national and departmental level are digitised and free.

if the French and Irish can do it, then why can’t we? And before anyone says we cannot afford it, the Irish and the French are bust, too. What gets digitised and is offered free, and what is put behind a paywall, reflects political choices and not economic necessity.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ss002d6252 said:

You get the right impression. I look at what other countries manage and it's a sad sight.

 

Craig

 

     Agreed- Thankfully, I can get to Kew to see the original war diaries of the Essex Regiment battalions engaged in Palestine-which gives a number of my local casualties.  Baffling that Ancestry digitise the pension cards but leave the War Diaries for the Middle East  in limbo.

    Maureen's comment is -to me- best exemplified by the sorry saga of digitisation of soldiers wills-  a money-spinner that never was. All that did was keep the records out of use.  Good on WFA for rescuing the stuff. Good on Ancestry-  open to criticism but without the records they provide, then as far as I can see , the majority of individual's work raised on this Forum would not exist (and acknowledgements to FMP as well). Let's not knock Ancestry- For what you get for your money, it is astoundingly good value (Try shopping in Marks and Sparks and see what an annual Ancestry subscription would buy-couple of prawn sarnies and a bit more).  Frankly, without Ancestry and FMP this Forum would not exist. Good on Ancestry and WFA for doing it all.

 

  

[keithmroberts]

8 hours ago, Hedley Malloch said:

I would take issue with your point that Ancestry is a cheap way of making this information available. Ancestry and FMP are expensive.

 

Yes, the charges hurt, but a single day trip to the National Archives for me involves a round trip of about 150 miles, and well over 3 hours driving. An overnight stay in London is rarely affordable, so in relative terms only, I have to consider my subs to these sites good value for money.  Friends living further afield face much larger costs to visit Kew, so I suppose I am relatively fortunate, and at least  I can afford the occasional visit for items that are not digitised.

 

Keith

[Guest]

They could have give them to the National Archives of Australia, or Ireland.

 

Mike