General Gough

[Ciaran Byrne]

I have just read his autobiography and have come to the conclusion that he was one of the most controversial generals of The Great War. His criticism of General Gough and Sir John French are pretty scathing and sites Haig as his favourite commander to work with. His behaviour during the Curragh Incident (I won’t call it a mutiny because it never was) in my opinion was right and I think he comes in for a lot of undue criticism over it.

Any opinions out there on the man?

[Jonathan Saunders]

My only knowledge of Gough is that which I have picked up in passing - I have not looked at his military career very closely or read Farrar-Hockley's biography. The opinion I have formed is generally unfavourable and I would have considered myself unfortunate to have come under his command.

I read somewhere that Gough was very one dimensional, that is to say he did not favour combined forces attacks but preferred to plan for infantry attacks only ie. little artillery or air support.

His conduct on the Somme proved he had little initiative when attacks failed although it has been said he would have been better suited to mobile warfare (and he was not alone in this regard). He did well when fighting the withdrawal in the Spring of 1918 but I dont regard this as evidence that he would have enjoyed success as an offensive Army Commander. Also he has to be measured on the circumstances that ensued when he was an Army Commander and in this he was generally a failure (as were others).

He undoubtedly owed a lot to Haig for his position, hence his loyalty and regard to Haig but in my opinion was promoted above his experience and capability.

Finally he comes across as a petty-minded individual that would have cut his own nose off rather than put a dispute behind him for the better good - the type that held grudges. He certainly wasnt his brother who comes across as a much more capable and intelligent individual.

As I said, these opinions are based on limited reading, but these are my opinions on the man.

[andigger]

I know very little about Gough as well and will be curious to see what develops in this thread. Ciaran, what is the ISBN for the book you read, I think I am going to have a look at it as well.

Andy

[steve fuller]

I only know about Gough and the Op Michael situation, but it seems to me that he was treated badly considering what they gave him to do! Can just imagine the staff meetings early 1918:

'Heres your list of jobs Gough; man a stretch of the line FAR too long for your knackered & depleted Fifth Army but whilst youre at it, rebuild the defences & comms from scratch, re-train your troops in this new 'Elastic defence' idea, liaise with the french, oh and make sure you dont get yourself over ran by the Germans whilst your at it will you, theres a good chap. And no, there isnt a substantial German prescence opposite you, honest.'

And as a way of saying thanks for having a go anyway, they sacked him !

Having said all that, i havent read widely on the man, so he may have deserved the critisism's for all I know ...

[truthergw]

It's pretty hard to find anyone who has any good to say of General Gough. Robin Neilland's book "The Great War Generals on the Western Front" tries to be fair but tends to leave him " damned with faint praise". The Canadians seemed to especially loathe him.

[Ciaran Byrne]

The book is called soldiering on and is quite readable. It isn't cheap though. Do a search on www.abe.co.uk and you'll find it.

As for the comment that he was competant at mobile warfare, this is probably true as he was a cavalryman and had been all his military life. Certainly not used to the trench warfare that developed on the Western Front. Not sure why he was put in charge of an army either.

As for the charge of being petty minded, I have to agree to an extent. As I said before, his critisism of General Allenby, Scobell and others is quite scathing and he accuses them of having little imagination and being tactically lacking.

His brothers were all VC recipiants and I think this used to eat away at him too. Having said that his command of 3rd Cavalry Brigade during the opening months of the war was generally very good.

[DrB]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that his nickname at 3rd Ypres was "Butcher" for his lack of insight into mounting a properly coordinated attack. Perhaps I have him confused with someone else.

I do have sympathy for his dismissal later though.

DrB

[armourersergeant]

Hubert Gough had one brother called Johnnie, who was a VC winner, he had no other brothers, atleast in the army. He did however have relatives and a father that won the coverted medal. The Gough's were a very traditional military family. Another Gough was killed at Arnheim I beleive.

Hubert to my reading did not ever show envy to his brother about the VC, though i am sure he did feel some inferiority in not having won the medal. Cetrainly IMHO Johnnie Gough was the more intelliegent and capable General and was a loss when he was killed by a sniper in 1915.

Hubert Gough has in my opinion taken the blame for many 'Butcher and Bungler' senarios that gives him the position inlike Haig in that he has very few champions. Haig has much debate, you never find someone sticking up for Gough!

That said i think he showd no real aptitude to higher command and was atleast promoted over his ability by atleast one rank. Ironically he was sacked for doing a good job under bad conditions. It is true that he and Allenby did not get on and in 1914 he almost insurbordinately disengaed himself from Allenbys command and went to Haigs area of operation.

Soldering on was written later on in his life when many mentioned had passed away, so it has to be taken with some salt!

My own summing of Gough is that he has more so than many paid the price of butcherism and unjustly so. But he was no genius and certainly not a commander of the highest elk. His MGGS Neil Malcolm takes alot of blame for the perception that 5th Army's HQ had amongst its div commanders, yet it is Gough who was in command and if he was unaware of what Malcolm was about then he should have been!!!

Farrar Hockleys book 'Goughie' is a good read and is a book that made me reconsider the stance i had on WW! Generals, yet i still think that he was one of the worse Army commanders of WW1.

regards

Arm.

[mole349]

just to put a face to the name ive found these signed pictures of Gen.Hubert Gough and his wife: