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Remembered Today:

Identify uniform


YorkieMo

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Is it possible to identify the regiment of this young soldier from his uniform. He was my Grandfather Albert Norton born 07.09.1900 in Sheffield. Although relatively young when WW1 finished he did serve. He mentioned KOYLIE is this the uniform, he mentioned that he served at the end of the war on the Rhine.

 

Albert Norton.pdf

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His service record is on Find My Past.

4/10/18 Called up, 53rd (Young Soldier) Battalion Training Reserve (Yorks Light Infantry)

17/2/19 Transferred to 53rd West Riding Regiment

8/4/19 Embarked Dover - Disembarked Dunkirk

13/4/19 Posted to 2/4th Duke of Wellington's (West Riding) Regiment

 

 

 

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That's amazing John Milner. I've tried in vain  for years to find Albert's service details but, nothing came up on Ancestry. Because Albert had talked of KOYLIE I tried their museum without success, obviously if he was in the Duke of Wellington's there wouldn't be reference to him there.I even had the photo enhanced to provide further details on the insignia but, no-one recognised it.

There's plenty of detail about Albert's brother Harold who was KIA so I'm pleased to be able to add Albert's detail to it too.

 

Thank you so much for this. My mum who's now 91 will be so pleased to see his service record.

Best Regards,

YorkieMo

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Shoulder title is Duke of Wellington's:

 

Filenameaz787844071_2.jpg?w=547&h=547&qu

 

Edited by Andrew Upton
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Thank you Andrew Upton. I'm grateful for the additional confirmation.

Having spoken with my 91 year old mum (Albert Norton's daughter) she recalls that her father Albert was stationed at the end of WW1 " with the occupation of the Rhine", does this mean anything to anyone familiar with the end of WW1 please?

 

Regards,

YorkieMo

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During the Great War I believe the S/T was W Riding.

 

I will have a consult of Westlake later on to see when the title change to the ugly later version..

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Hello, YorkieMo,

 

I'll have a go at answering your question about 'the occupation of the Rhine', and then an actual expert can correct mymistakes!

 

British Army of the Rhine was the designation given to British forces which occupied a zone of Germany after the Armistice, for a period extending, I believe from 1919-1929.

 

With most soldiers who had been involved in the actual fightng naturally wanting to leave the Army and return home as soon as possible, BAOR was made up largely of personnel who wanted to stay on in the Army, who were supplemented by troops who had been in the training system when the War ended, which is where your relative would have come in.

 

BAOR started shrinking in size almost from the very start, given the lack of any sort of resistance to the occupation in Germany and the state of Britain's finances following the War.  This document will give you the bare bones of its history, and where your relative's unit fitted in to the structure (see Midland Division): -

 

http://www.orbat.info/history/volume5/518/Original BAOR.pdf

 

Please NB that BAOR was the designation also given to Britsh forces occupying, and subsequently stationed in, Germany after the Second World War, a completely different subject..

 

Hope you find this useful.

 

John

 

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Re the Occupation of the Rhine, the 62nd West Riding Division (of which the 2/4th Battalion of the Duke of Wellington's (West Riding) Regiment was a part) was one of the Divisions in the British Army of Occupation. The Division started marching through Belgium and into Germany on about 17th November 1918 and arrived in the Rhineland during Christmas Eve and Christmas Day 1918 at or near Mechernich. The war diary of the 2/4th battalion for that period should give some information about the march. You can download the battalion war diary from the National Archives website for a small fee (£3.50 I think). My grandfather was in the 2/5th Battalion which was in the same brigade (186th Bde) and Division (62nd). Based on his battalion's war diary (the 2/5th battalion had become the 5th Battalion by February 1918), and some details from his letters/postcards home, I have plotted the route on a modern map below. Hopefully, the information is self-explanatory but if you have any questions I would be happy to try to answer them.

 

Regards

 

Chris Payne

 

 

image.png.f32d78884fd5b1064ac298cc6f649cb5.png

Regards

 

Chris

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Sorry. I've just realised that the March to Germany was irrelevant to your grandfather as he wasn't posted to his battalion until April 1919, long after the Division and his battalion had reached Germany! I'll have to remember not to get carried away with my enthusiasm, and should read the small print first. The Battalion War Diary will give you some general information. I'm pretty sure that many longer-serving men were being demobbed quite rapidly at that stage and it is likely that your grandfather didn't spend a long time in Germany.

 

Chris Payne

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On ‎12‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 16:08, John Milner said:

His service record is on Find My Past.

4/10/18 Called up, 53rd (Young Soldier) Battalion Training Reserve (Yorks Light Infantry)

17/2/19 Transferred to 53rd West Riding Regiment

8/4/19 Embarked Dover - Disembarked Dunkirk

13/4/19 Posted to 2/4th Duke of Wellington's (West Riding) Regiment

 

 

 

Hi John, Was there a service number on this detail on Find MY Past please? This would help immensely I think in identifying my grandfather Albert Norton.

Regards,

YorkieMo

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5 hours ago, Chris Payne said:

Sorry. I've just realised that the March to Germany was irrelevant to your grandfather as he wasn't posted to his battalion until April 1919, long after the Division and his battalion had reached Germany! I'll have to remember not to get carried away with my enthusiasm, and should read the small print first. The Battalion War Diary will give you some general information. I'm pretty sure that many longer-serving men were being demobbed quite rapidly at that stage and it is likely that your grandfather didn't spend a long time in Germany.

 

Chris Payne

Hi Chris, This is fascinating information and far more than I've been able to find in years of looking for Albert Norton's army service. Obviously, as you say, due to his young age when the war ended he didn't spend long over there, he became 18 in September 1918 and, considering that his first child was born in June 1921 but, I would be interested in finding out about his short service life. I can find plenty about his older brothers, one who was KIA and another who was badly injured but, nothing about Albert until John Milner found the above detail.

Regards,

YorkieMo

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There was an Official History

The Occupation of the Rhineland, 1918-1929 by Brigadier-General Sir James E. Edmonds ([Confidential edition] London: HMSO, 1944; Public edition, with an Introduction by Dr G. Bayliss, London: HMSO, in association with the Imperial War Museum, 1987)

(details from http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/about/british-official-histories-great-war/ )

 

Cheers

Maureen

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On ‎12‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 23:29, Maureene said:

There was an Official History

The Occupation of the Rhineland, 1918-1929 by Brigadier-General Sir James E. Edmonds ([Confidential edition] London: HMSO, 1944; Public edition, with an Introduction by Dr G. Bayliss, London: HMSO, in association with the Imperial War Museum, 1987)

(details from http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/about/british-official-histories-great-war/ )

 

Cheers

Maureen

Thank you for the link Maureen.

Regards,

YorkieMo

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