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51st Sikhs

Pipers 1st and 2nd Battalions, Scots Guards c. 1896

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51st Sikhs

Since the response was great in my last query and fun as well, I enclose another sepia from my collection which members are not named save for the two PM’s which I shall not name and leave it to the members to think about. 

6DFC1DEE-E47E-4EA3-B130-7AA8F1EF6C8E.jpeg

Edited by 51st Sikhs

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Ron Abbott

If genuinely c1896, then presumably Harry Fraser of the 1st Battalion (P/M of the 1st Bn. from 1890 to 1899 and P/M of the 2nd Bn,. from 1899 to 1900). and David Laing (P/M of the 2nd Bn. from 1891 to 1899 and then 1st Bn from 1899 to 1906) ?

 

It's certainly old, as the plaids are in the old style. 

 

Interestingly, the pipers and Pipe-Majors' sporrans are the same as is most of the furniture, except the waist belt buckles. 

No medals.  I wonder when the battalion Pipe-Majors commenced wearing a different sporran cantle and belt furniture/plaid brooches (?). 

 

Where was the photo taken? 

Edited by Ron Abbott

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51st Sikhs

The Pipe Majors are Forsyth and Laing.   About the lack of medals definitely pre Boer War and no Willie Ross nor his brother Alexander! 

 

I dont  know where this taken. Chelsea Barracks perhaps? Anyone recognize the building? 

Edited by 51st Sikhs

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Ron Abbott

How certain is it that Forsyth is one of the Pipe-Majors?  I haven't double checked, but I have it here that Henry Christie Forsyth (1871 to 1946) wasn't appointed Pipe-Major in the Scots Guards until 1899 when he became P/M of the 3rd Battalion where he stayed until  1900 and then subsequently took over as Pipe-Major of the 2nd Battalion (until 1905).

 

Sure it's not Henry Fraser?  Or that it really was taken c1896?  

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51st Sikhs

Ah Ron. Just saw this sorry I haven’t been on for a very long while. 
 

I found some goodies here that will confirm as per your query that the Pipe Major on the left is indeed Fraser and not Forsyth. However the Pipe Major on the right is certainly Laing. 
 

Please see photos and caption. 
 

Pipers of the 1st Scots Guards, 1896. Artist: Gregory & Co

Pipers of the 1st Scots Guards, 1896. Pipe-Major Fraser flanked by Piper James Pourie (right) and Piper John Gordon (left). A print from The Navy and Army Illustrated, 3rd January 1896. 

E8B0E739-7539-4567-A39C-40F0D7FE06B6.jpeg

11D31136-FCF8-48EC-93CA-8FC023C995B7.jpeg

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Ron Abbott
9 hours ago, 51st Sikhs said:

Ah Ron. Just saw this sorry I haven’t been on for a very long while. 
 

I found some goodies here that will confirm as per your query that the Pipe Major on the left is indeed Fraser and not Forsyth. However the Pipe Major on the right is certainly Laing. 
 

Please see photos and caption. 
 

Pipers of the 1st Scots Guards, 1896. Artist: Gregory & Co

Pipers of the 1st Scots Guards, 1896. Pipe-Major Fraser flanked by Piper James Pourie (right) and Piper John Gordon (left). A print from The Navy and Army Illustrated, 3rd January 1896. 

 

E8B0E739-7539-4567-A39C-40F0D7FE06B6.jpeg

11D31136-FCF8-48EC-93CA-8FC023C995B7.jpeg

 

 

 

Interesting....the last photo.  As per my previous comment on 6th December, you can make out the different belt furniture and more ornate sporran cantle worn by the Pipe-Major in that photo.  Note the collar badge and wider braiding as well.

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51st Sikhs

I think the change occurred in 1900 as you’ll see here in this picture of Fraser and the 3rd Battalion pipers. You’ll see what was the last change which has lasted till now. 

1C296949-D88D-412E-980B-66651CFCE2ED.jpeg

Edited by 51st Sikhs

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