Paul Reed Posted 24 December , 2004 Share Posted 24 December , 2004 While looking for something else today came across this postcard which is entitled "British and French graves at Cape Helles Gallipoli". The one that interests me is the one on the left which is in German but names a "Flieger" (pilot/flyer) Baptitse de Conte. I have tried tracing this name on the SGA site but there is no trace. Now why would a French pilot have a German grave at Gallipoli?! Any thoughts - anyone know who he is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 24 December , 2004 Author Share Posted 24 December , 2004 Close up of the grave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 27 December , 2004 Share Posted 27 December , 2004 Paul, There were two or three replies here early on Boxing-day morning but these seem to have been lost at the temp shut-down No one seemed to have anything firm as I remember, and that includes me However The French were involved with the RNAS in the Aegean Blockade; Brad King mentions ‘A’ Flight together with the names Prejelan and Constantini but alas not your chap. I think that the date 1916 might be the clue. If he was shot down after the evacuation then the Turks may have passed his body over to one of their German liaison officers for a Christian burial and if his French was not up to the job of composing an inscription for the marker, then he may have been forced to use German instead. Hopefully after the feast one of our French Pals can be of real help here Regards Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 27 December , 2004 Author Share Posted 27 December , 2004 Thanks Michael - pity the other replies have gone. Wonder why that is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 27 December , 2004 Share Posted 27 December , 2004 Paul The replies were made just after Chris took the back-up for the maintenance shutdown over Christmas and so were lost. He has posted elsewhere on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 27 December , 2004 Author Share Posted 27 December , 2004 Thanks Terry; I didn't even know the forum was off line! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 28 December , 2004 Share Posted 28 December , 2004 I can almost make out the inscription on the marker. The first word is "Hier" = here. The word above "Baptiste" is the nationality. The German word for "French" is "französische." I can make out out the "ische" but that would be the same for any nationality. The first part doesn't really look like "französ." The bottom part reads "gefallen im Luft (can't make out) am 6. Juni 1916" = fell in aerial... on (what looks to me like) 6 June 1916. The month definitely begins with a "J", it could also be "Januar" = January. Best wishes, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 28 December , 2004 Author Share Posted 28 December , 2004 Thanks Michael - you can make all that out quite clearly on the original. What I was hoping for is anyone he might have known of this pilot, because he does not appear on the French war dead register on the SGA site: perhaps the Germans mis-identified him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 28 December , 2004 Share Posted 28 December , 2004 Paul The Introduction for the SGA site says Soldiers who died, so perhaps Naval personnel aren't listed. I just tried looking for the names of some Naval airmen known to have been killed in action, but without success. Cheers Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 28 December , 2004 Author Share Posted 28 December , 2004 You could be right Gareth; I had also looked him up under the 'Les personnels de l'aéronautique militaire 1914-1918' section but to no avail. Do any of your flyers appear here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 28 December , 2004 Share Posted 28 December , 2004 Hello Paul, Presumably you are only looking for the surname Baptiste as the rest of the title may only refer to his hometown; depending upon what information the Burial party had. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 28 December , 2004 Share Posted 28 December , 2004 Paul No. I tried looking for the well known QM Henri le Garrec of Centre d'Aviation Maritime Dunkerque, killed in action on 3 September 1917 while flying Sopwith Triplane F13 (N5388) but to no avail. So I think that the site lists only Aviation Militaire personnel. Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 28 December , 2004 Author Share Posted 28 December , 2004 Hello Paul, Presumably you are only looking for the surname Baptiste as the rest of the title may only refer to his hometown; depending upon what information the Burial party had. Roop Thanks - I hadn't thought of that. French dog tags have name and christian name on plus the place of enlist and class year; perhaps the burial party mis-read it? Another avenue to pursue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcderms Posted 30 December , 2004 Share Posted 30 December , 2004 Maybe your man isn't French at all but an Alsatian. Lots of Franco-Germans fought for the Kaiser... In fact the only surviving German WW1 veteran is a Frenchman who has changed nationality five times in his lifetime and whose son died fighting for the Axis in WW2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 30 December , 2004 Share Posted 30 December , 2004 Hi McDerms, The cross does state French but whch Conte does it refer to?? There is one in Bordeaux but there must be many. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 3 January , 2005 Share Posted 3 January , 2005 The Boxing Day closedown of the Forum made my earlier post on this disappear. I checked Casualties of the German Air Service 1914-1920 which covers both the Army and Navy air arms, and can't find the man listed under Baptiste, de Conte, or Conte. I think that the French Navy is his most likely service. Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 3 January , 2005 Share Posted 3 January , 2005 Paul, If you are not in contact with them already, then perhaps the following may help you to identify your airman [Christina Holstein Posted this on Thu, 20 May 2004 09:54:03 +0000] “ This morning I came across this forgotten address in my address list. Don't know if it's still active [they are] but it might be useful to someone: Association nationale pour le souvenir des Dardanelles et Front d’Orient, 137 boulevard Saint-Michel, 75005 Paris, tel. + 1 43 54 86 70.” Regards Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 3 January , 2005 Author Share Posted 3 January , 2005 Thanks again for all your continued input. Michael, I know this Association, and they do not hold records of the dead at Gallipoli. Thanks for the suggestion, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 3 January , 2005 Author Share Posted 3 January , 2005 I meant to also add that I found a list of French soldiers buried at Gallipoli on the Memorial-Gen Web site at: http://www.memorial-genweb.org/html/fr/res...81&pays=Turquie No-one on the list that really fits the bill... so the mystery continues! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CGI Posted 4 January , 2005 Share Posted 4 January , 2005 A few remarks about the picture, as there were at least a few 'wild guesses' : 1. The text on the cross : Hier (here) ruht (rests) (der?) (the - hardly legible, but the logical word in this context) ------- ( ?) franzosiche (French) Flieger (pilot) Baptiste (Christian name) de Conte (family name) gefallen (died) im (in) luftkampf (aerial combat) am (on) 6 Januar 1916 (January 6th 1916) 2. The name : "de Conte" is his family name and does not refer to a town. It's possible he was of noble birth (the small d in "de"), which might have made it easier for him to be commissioned as a pilot. This is all but certain however, as by the beginning of the 20th century, 10 000's of French citizens had family names of this type. 3. The caption in pencil : Written in English, so inevitably after the war. Baptiste died only a couple of days before the evacuation and how could you explain a German-made grave dug in occupied territory and then photographed by an English-speaking visitor? "at Helles" : certainly true, and to be even more precise, in the close vicinity, and probably even within the walls of the Old Fort at Seddulbahir. It's the only place where even nowadays these huge stone cannon-balls, dating back to the medieval defences can still be found everywhere. Nobody would bother to transport them very far to decorate a simple grave. 4. The burial of a French pilot by the Germans : Not so hard to explain. But perhaps a picture might help here more than anything else (see below). This photo was taken by a German officer who also took the other pictures for the German Official History of the 1915 Campaign. From his work, it can be proved that he was at the Helles front just before and just after the evacuation. And the wreckage is that of a French airplane. At the site of the crash, before he is buried, as well Turks as Germans are present. Who could be the dead pilot? CGI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 4 January , 2005 Share Posted 4 January , 2005 How do we know that is a French Aeroplane??? I am not au fai with such matters. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 4 January , 2005 Share Posted 4 January , 2005 Roop In the film type most commonly used during the Great War, red looks like black, while blue appears much lighter. Hence, the aircraft shown appears to have French blue-white-red (from the centre) roundels. However, just to complicate things, the RNAS in the Mediterranean at the time flew some aircraft with 'French' roundels, eg Voisin Type 3 No 8501, flown from Imbros. Another complication in this incident is the German (and Turkish?) habit of getting the names of Allied airmen confused. This is quite understandable, given that they were working from whatever documentation the airman might be carrying and which was legible after the aircraft crashed or force-landed. Regards Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 4 January , 2005 Share Posted 4 January , 2005 Thanks Gareth; Your knowledge of such matters is to be admired. Talking of Voisins, do you have a pic of one??? 7 RNAS Squadron who supplied air support for my Grandfather in GEA used these apparently. Dont know what they look like Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 4 January , 2005 Share Posted 4 January , 2005 Roop Below is a Voisin LAS operated by No 7 Sqn RNAS in East Africa. I hope this helps. Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 4 January , 2005 Share Posted 4 January , 2005 Many Thanks Gareth, I cannot say I was too impressed by the aircraft. However, these machines were able to drop bombs and smoke mark reasonably effectively for the artillery. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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