DEFECTIVE MEMORIAL PLAQUES (SPELLING MISTAKES)

[303man]

Do any forum members have Memorial Plaques with incorrect spelling of the soldiers name.  I attach pictures for starters an Acton Plaque to Ernest Williams Soal and a corrected Woolwich Plaque to Ernest William Soal.   He is on Soldiers Died and the CWGC as Ernest William Soal.

 

 

[Sepoy]

I have the memorial plaque named to Robert Audrey Hastings Lloyd. His name was actually "Aubrey" not "Audrey"!
It commemorates 2nd Lieutenant R.A.H. Lloyd, 85th Squadron R.A.F., who died of wounds received whilst flying during October, 1918.
Unfortunately, I cannot gain access to the plaque at present to photograph it.

Sepoy

 

[Medaler]

Very interesting indeed from several aspects.

 

1/ It proves that the faulty ones did not have to be returned before a corrected one was sent out.

2/ It also demonstrates that the foundry which produced the faulty one were not accountable for correcting their own errors.

 

A wonderful pair to own. I wonder how many faulty ones went in the dustbin after the replacement had arrived?

 

Regards,

Mike

[303man]

16 minutes ago, Medaler said:

Very interesting indeed from several aspects.

 

1/ It proves that the faulty ones did not have to be returned before a corrected one was sent out.

2/ It also demonstrates that the foundry which produced the faulty one were not accountable for correcting their own errors.

 

A wonderful pair to own. I wonder how many faulty ones went in the dustbin after the replacement had arrived?

 

Regards,

Mike

Remember Acton Closed down towards the end of 1920 so the original factory was probably unable to produce the replacement plaque. There was only a very short period when production overlapped a

 

Memo 349. BM/8117/A.G.1.R.  States that:

 

The reference number reached at the beginning of July in the Factory was 410,000 and that the plaques were being issued at the rate of 10,000 per week. it is hoped shortly to increase output to 15,000 per week. At the same time some 18,000 plaques bearing early reference numbers were found to be defective and have to be replaced these defective plaques are being cleared at the rate of about 4,500 per week.  It is observed that, as a general rule the serial numbers follow the order of the dates of death, though in some cases the name of the soldier killed early in the war may be low on the list as the identity and address of the next of kin were not at the time forthcoming.

[Jim Strawbridge]

Another interesting point. The two plaques show the naming in two lines. The first one has one word, then two. The second has two words, then one. So why are they different? Could it be two different foundries ?  Could it be different moulds (one has number behind the lion's leg and the other between the legs) ?  Could it be that taking the "S" off the font increases the spacing ?  Any ideas ?

[303man]

The moulds made little difference as the the names were individually impressed into a small steel plate and held in place by 6 small magnets in the mould,  probably made on a machine similar to the ones you used to see in railway stations. I expect it is a spacing thing, however the plaque saga continues as Most plaques to New Zealand casualties seem to be in the smaller of the 2 fonts,  I expect because they were mostly done in one batch on one machine.

 

[Old Owl]

I have a plaque to an Irish Guards officer, correct name Albin George Tomkins, the plaque however is named to Abin George Tomkins.  A minor error, but one which appears to have not been corrected.  The plaque is a Woolwich plaque and has a '2' infront of the leg.

[Hett65]

The widow of Sjt 7630 Henry GASTALL Manchester Regiment wrote to the army authorities in 1920 in relation to the memorial plaque issued having the wrong surname engraved.

There is a letter on his army file in relation to the issue.

                                                                                                                                           Memorial Plaque Factory

                                                                                                                                           54/56 Church Road,

                                                                                                                                           Acton W3

                                                                                                                                           24th September 1920

Officer in charge

No 1 Infantry Record Office

Preston

                                                        7630 Pte Henry GASKELL

                                  1st Bn Manchester Reg: reference no 54936

Sir,

The Next of Kin of the above deceased soldier writes stating that the name appearing on the Memorial

Plaque is incorrect, and should read: Henry GASTALL.

Will you therefore ascertain the origin of the error, notify the Next of Kin accordingly, and issue to me

your instructions re issue of an amended Plaque. 

                                                                                                                                         Yours sincerely

                                                                                                                                         Assistant Manager

 

Nothing on his file as to the re-issue of a corrected plaque but is seems that they are blaming the Infantry Office rather than themselves.  I also notice that the letter has his rank as 

Private whereas he was a Serjeant having been promoted a year before he was killed.

John 

                           

 

 

[hmsk212]

On ‎9‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 11:45, Jim Strawbridge said:

Another interesting point. The two plaques show the naming in two lines. The first one has one word, then two. The second has two words, then one. So why are they different? Could it be two different foundries ?  Could it be different moulds (one has number behind the lion's leg and the other between the legs) ?  Could it be that taking the "S" off the font increases the spacing ?  Any ideas ?

It could be that they thought he had the double barrel surname of Williams Soal on the incorrect plaque.

 

Steve

[Kerry Milutin]

Does anyone have the Roman numerals for the year 1918 on the back of the plaque because my g.grandfather's did

[303man]

On 12/10/2017 at 00:41, Kerry Milutin said:

Does anyone have the Roman numerals for the year 1918 on the back of the plaque because my g.grandfather's did

Memorial Plaque production did not start until late 1919 the Specimen Plaques issued all have 1919 or 1920 Date in Roman Numerals so unless there is photographic or physical evidence someone is mistaken.  Had someone just engraved 1918 on the back of his plaque?

Edited 13 October , 2017 by 303man

[Christina Creese]

This is my great uncle Wallace who died aged 19.

His plaque says Walter not Wallace . The plague was handed from his dad to Wallaces elder brother (my great grandad) to my grandad who handed to my dad who today handed to me. 

I notice from comments there was an opportunity to send back and have it corrected. I can only assume that the heart break of loosing your youngest child still a teenager must have horrendous and maybe having the name changed was the last of their worries or maybe a replacement wasn’t sent. 

 

http://www.ww1playingthegame.org.uk/content/service-people/cumber-wallace-lovell?justadded=52876#comment-52876

 

Middle name after the place his mother was born. 3/7/06 found a record of the death of a walter lovell cumber *must be the same) who died of his injurys in war 07 December 1915, the place or war/battle was Gallipoli . He was only 19 years old.

Royal Fusiliers
Cumber, Wallace Lovell
About Cumber, Wallace Lovell
Unit 2nd/3rd Bn.
Rank Private
Service Number '2280'
Date of Death 12/07/1915
Place of Death Turkey (including Gallipoli)
Age at Death 19
Notes Son Of Mr. And Mrs. H. J. Cumber Of 12 Hampden St. Harrow Rd. Paddington London.
Regiment
Royal Fusiliers (89)

 

Edited 7 April , 2018 by Christina Creese
Missed some details

[KevinBattle]

If it's any consolation, at least the CWGC Debt of Honour database has the correct Name https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/607065/cumber,-wallace-lovell/

[Christina Creese]

This is my great uncle Wallace who died aged 19.

His plaque says Walter not Wallace . The plague was handed from his dad to Wallaces elder brother (my great grandad) to my grandad who handed to my dad who today handed to me. 

I notice from comments there was an opportunity to send back and have it corrected. I can only assume that the heart break of loosing your youngest child still a teenager must have horrendous and maybe having the name changed was the last of their worries or maybe a replacement wasn’t sent. 

 

http://www.ww1playingthegame.org.uk/content/service-people/cumber-wallace-lovell?justadded=52876#comment-52876

 

[Christina Creese]

Thank you Kevin for the reply and link , very interesting 

I have checked other places and only the memorial plaque is wrongly spelt. I’m going to get Wallace’s birth certificate to store with plaque.

 

Chrisie 

[afgwf]

Plaque to Herbert Hodgson - on plaque Hrrbert real spelling error (no further details of who's plaque this was)

Edited 14 April , 2018 by afgwf
exta line

[Retlaw]

On 30/09/2017 at 11:45, Jim Strawbridge said:

Another interesting point. The two plaques show the naming in two lines. The first one has one word, then two. The second has two words, then one. So why are they different? Could it be two different foundries ?  Could it be different moulds (one has number behind the lion's leg and the other between the legs) ?  Could it be that taking the "S" off the font increases the spacing ?  Any ideas ?

Having served my time as a pattern maker, the original pattern would have been used to make several metal patterns, which  when tittivated up would be mounted on a plate, in fact from the numbers shown as produced each week most of the foundry would be plate moulding, most likely the furnace being tapped 1/2 doz times a day, as for the names, thats easy to account for each pattern would have an opening to the depth of the plate and some blokes would be sat at a bench with the inserts which slotted into the pattern, they would be responcible changing those inserts every time the top box was lifted off, and the patterns were exposed for the next round, their job was the most finniky, and best paid, as most plate molders in foundry's were regarded as just above labourers, the lowest paid were usually the bogey men, they trundled their bogeys of molten metal down the tracks from the furnaces to the moulders, standing beside their last batch waiting with their ladles for the molten metal, 1/2 hour later floor cleared, mouldin boxes piled up ready, moulding sand sieved, fresh moulding sand mixed in an away they went, 9 hrs a day,  5 1/2 days a week, month after month.

Then all those castings when cool, they would need the sprues cutting off, and sand blasting then placed in tumbling drums usually with hardwood chippings or cocoanut husks

Edited 14 April , 2018 by Retlaw

[Medaler]

On 9/30/2017 at 11:45, Jim Strawbridge said:

Another interesting point. The two plaques show the naming in two lines. The first one has one word, then two. The second has two words, then one. So why are they different? Could it be two different foundries ?  Could it be different moulds (one has number behind the lion's leg and the other between the legs) ?  Could it be that taking the "S" off the font increases the spacing ?  Any ideas ?

 

I assume that the combined number of letters and one space in "ERNEST WILLIAMS" (= 15) would have been one too many to fit onto the plaque at that font size. On the other hand, "ERNEST WILLIAM" (at 14) was a fit.

 

Mike

[Guest]

On 30/09/2017 at 15:20, Hett65 said:

 

I think this is my Distant relative.

I have just began my Family Tree & Henry is a distant relative

Can I view his medals on line i dont have any information on him and this would be wonderful to view 

Serjeant GASTALL, HENRY Service Number 7630 Died 25/03/1917 Aged 35 1st Bn. Manchester Regiment 

Thankyou 

 

On 30/09/2017 at 15:20, Hett65 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

                           

 

 

 

[Hett65]

I do not have any medals or the death plaque for Henry Gastall, he was a South Shields Borough policeman and was recalled to the colours in 1914.  He was born on the 1st June 1882 at 17 Curson Street, Clitheroe, Lancashire.  Is this the man from your family tree, if it is I have quite a bit of history on him.

John