Ranks and Appointments in Royal Artillery

[susancammas]

Good morning

 

As far as I know, the WWI War promotion ladder consisted of:

• Gnr – gunner  

• Bdr – bombardier (one stripe)

• Cpl – corporal (two stripes)

• Sjt – serjeant (three stripes with a gun above)

 

Where are the Drivers?    Were they at the same level rank as the Gunners??

I understand that Gunner and Driver were both ranks within the Royal Artillery.   The large number of horses meant specialist roles of saddler, farrier, and shoeing smith, fitters, wheelers etc. were used and added to the name of the rank. So, they were appointments within those two ranks.   For sergeants, this is clear, Farrier Serjeant was not a rank, but rather an appointment within the rank of Serjeant.   Were there no “Gunner-Shoeing smiths” for example??

All the above raises a few questions when I revisit the info Ron  sent a couple of days ago concerning the composition of batteries.

 

I imagine that all the rank Drivers were appointed exclusively Drivers as well, with no other appointments possible?

What rank were the saddlers, fitters, wheelers, trumpeters, batmen? Could they be gunners, bombardiers or corporals?  Could there have been “Gunner, Bombardier or Corporal – Saddlers” for example?

 

What about the signallers, batmen, clerks etc.?

 

I also found in my notes somewhere that a Limber Gunner (who was often a Bombardier or Corporal) was the man primarily responsible for doing daily and weekly servicing (not the same as “serving”).   So, my world is turning upside down – a Corporal or Bombardier (ranks) could also be a Gunner, which I thought was a rank!!

 

Oh dear – can you help!

 

Bon weekend

Susan

[kevinrowlinson]

Susan,

 

You are not alone in being confused with ranks and appointments during the Great War, many members with thousands of posts still get them wrong.

It is best to see the KRs as of 1914 which can be found at ;

 Specifically for the RA there was a change in 1917 when the lance appointment of Acting Bombardier changed to Lance Bombardier, and the addition of the appointment of Signaller in 1918. The change of some ranks, for all branches of the army,  to Warrant Officer II has been discussed many times on forum and should be easily searchable. If one sees just Wheeler, or Shoeing Smith then it is safe to assume his rank was Gunner.

 

Kevin

[susancammas]

Many thanks Kevin – the KRs (King’s Regulations I suppose?) make things clearer.

What a lot of musicians in the lower ranks!!

 

Taking the example of a RHA 13 pdr gun battery:

 

Major

Captain

3 Subalterns

Battery Serjeant-Major

Battery Quartermaster-Serjeant

Farrier-Serjeant

7 Serjeants,

6 Shoeing-Smiths (incl 1 Corporal)

2 Saddlers 

2 Fitters or Wheelers

2 Trumpeters

7 Corporals 

11 Bombardiers

75 Gunners

75 Drivers

10 Batmen

 

I now understand that the 6 shoeing smiths, 2 saddlers, 2 fitters, 2 trumpeters were in addition to the 11 Bombardiers, 75 Gunners and 75 Drivers.  Same remark for the 1 shoeing-smiths.

That's quite enough detail for my purposes.

But I do have one last question:  what did all those bombardiers, gunners, and drivers, without specific appointments, do?

 

Thanks again

Susan

[Muerrisch]

Serving the guns, or driving.

[susancammas]

Many thanks Muerrisch for your very concise remark which however gave me food for thought!

 

To a laywoman, 75 drivers with 3 per gun detachment seemed rather a lot, but on reflection, I suppose those who were not actually “in action” were looking after the horses (grooming, feeding, stable management etc.)

 

For the 75 Gunners with about 6 men (I think) per gun detachment – same remark- but again on reflection, I think I forgot to take into account, casualties, miscellaneous other duties, rest periods etc.

 

Thanks for putting me straight.

Susan

[Wexflyer]

Don't forget, you need lots to chiefs to tell the few indians what to do....

[pebbles]

I do not pretend to be an expert on WW1 RHA (Air Defence 60's and 70's) but think a battery had 6 guns and a quick look at http://www.1914-1918.net/rha.htm 228 horses to be looked after. Each gun needs to be served by a detachment of men who need ammunition to be supplied to them. Horses unlike present gun tractors need considerable care and maintenance and I have zero experience of that. I assume that in action the horses would be well away from the guns with wagons of ammunition going to the guns as needed,  which may give a start to what is actually going on when guns are in action.

[ianjonesncl]

Susan

 

The word Gunner is synonymous with anyone who has served in the Royal Artillery, be it be  the Master Gunner of St James (head of the Royal Regiment of Artillery) or a young recruit.  It was, and still is, the lowest rank in the Royal Artillery, equivalent to a Private, and is what dictates pay. Gunner is also a trade related to those who serve the guns.

 

A Gunner (Rank) could actually be a gunner on the guns, a signalman, a command post assistant, or a batman. If he then gets better qualified (by experience or going on a course), then he could get promoted, takes on more responsibility and could be in charge of others.  Drivers would be employed on duties involving the horses.

 

Everyone in a Battery has a specific appointment from the Battery Commander to the newest Gunner. Included in the 75 Gunners would be those allocated to a specific gun detachment with a specific role eg A Sub- Detachment Layer.

 

In terms of numbers it should be borne in mind the requirement for ammunition supply. Moving ammunition and preparing ammunition requires manpower. Limbers need to be emptied, ammunition prepared for firing and supplied to the breach.

 

In addition to the horses towing the limbers and guns, there was also ammunition limbers and spare horses, so lots of drivers required.

 

The trumpeters are a form of signalling and that method is stilled used to day by Kings Troop.

 

Ian

 

 

[Ron Clifton]

The "75 Drivers" bit is easy, as there is a full breakdown in "War Establishments 1914".

 

Drivers with gun teams 18 (3 each for six teams)

Drivers with ammunition wagons 36 (3 each for twelve wagons)

Drivers with other vehicles 3 (water cart, baggage wagon which has 2)

Drivers for spare horses 11 (one per 2 spare horses)

Spare drivers 7 (10% margin to cover casualties)

Total 75.

 

There isn't a full breakdown for the "75 Gunners" but the following is an estimate:

Gunners in gun detachments 57 (nine each per gun, plus the section commander's horse-holder for each 2 guns)

Signallers, range-takers, "patrol" and orderlies 13

Spare gunners 5 (10% margin to cover casualties)

Total 75.

 

7 Sergeants and 7 Corporals equates to one of each per gun, plus one of each spare.

11 Bombardiers may include command of two ammunition wagon teams, plus spares to cover casualties.

 

Ron

 

 

 

 

[susancammas]

Thank you all (Kevin, Meurrisch, Wexflier, Pebbles, Ian and of course Ron) for your help in this prickly matter.

I think I've got it sorted out now.

 

Susan