SERGEANT JOHN McNABNEY

[12th battalion]

Good afternoon I am currently doing a project on Sgt John McNabney a highly decorated soldier form Harryville Ballymena. I have hit a stumbling block I know he survived the war but I am trying to find out where he is buried but I have drawn a complete blank.I think he may have passed away in Armagh in April 1941 and possibly buried in Armagh.

[RaySearching]

Hello 

The information you have posted on  a  John McNabney is a bit sparse 

A service number, regiment date of birth awards  and anything else you know about him 

may assist the forum members to find the info you are seeking

 

Ray

[jonbem]

is it this chap?

 

 

 

[RaySearching]

Jonbem seems to tick the right box

R E 57836 McNabney DCM MM and Bar + MID

 

 

Could he be this chap  (no MIC for a William John McNabney, He may have served  as John)

 

Originally from Ballymena, William John McNabney moved to Belfast where

he married Margaret Walker in 1912 and lived at 52 Ohio Street. He joined

the R.E., Ulster Division in October 1915 and was posted to France where

he took part in the Battle of the Somme. After the war he had a timber yard

at the Crumlin Road end of Cliftonpark Avenue and also built some houses

on the Serpentine Road and in Larne. His final address was 158 Cliftonpark

Avenue. In 1940 his son Thomas John was killed on HMS Foyle bank in Portland harbour during the Battle of Britain.

 

Because of William’s experiences at the Somme he suffered long periods in the UVF Hospital where he died on

9 January 1941 aged 57.  His gravestone in the City Cemetery commemorates that although he didn’t die until 1941,

he died of war wounds sustained at the Battle of the Somme. 

 

Source From a net dedication page

 

Ray

Edited 4 September , 2017 by RaySearching

[MickLeeds]

Died on the 6th January 1941, buried on the 9th.

 

Belfast City Council burial records.

 

https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=6649.12917

 

Mick.

[RaySearching]

 

Mick

All we have to now establish is if  William John McNabney, or William McNabney (as Burial Record  and John McNabney DCM MM, are  one and the same

There seems to be some discrepancy,s his name and (he died of war wounds sustained at the Battle of the Somme) if this is correct  his wounds must have been sustained  during the 1918  2nd Battle of the Somme  

His death certificate would  of course would show the cause of death

 

Ray

 

 

 

[clk]

Hi,

 

57836 McNabney has some kind of 1916 hospital admission/discharge record transcription on FWR here. Hopefully it will show his specific RE unit at the time, and may help to rule him in, or out. My sub ran out on Saturday, so unfortunately can't look.

 

Regards

Chris

[jonbem]

7 minutes ago, clk said:

Hi,

 

57836 McNabney has some kind of 1916 hospital admission/discharge record transcription on FWR here. Hopefully it will show his specific RE unit at the time, and may help to rule him in, or out. My sub ran out on Saturday, so unfortunately can't look.

 

Regards

Chris

36th Signals Company         

Ailment:Sciatica

Date of Admission for Original Ailment:10/06/1916

Date Transferred to Sick Convoy:12/06/1916

Number/Designation of Ward:A2

Notes written in the Observations Column:110th Field Ambulance, To No. 17 Ambulance Train

                                                                                                       

Edited 4 September , 2017 by jonbem

[RaySearching]

William John McNabney

 

1911 census 52 Ohio Street. Belfast (as post four)   HERE

 

Ray

 

Edit photo on this forum  link   Post 65

Edited 4 September , 2017 by RaySearching

[RaySearching]

Ballymena Times

Wednesday 14 March 2012

 

For an example of cold, calculated bravery leading to multiple gallantry awards, the exploits of Sergeant John McNabney of the Royal Engineers are worth examination.

McNabney was one of those recruits to the Ulster Division enlisted at Ballymena in September of 1914.

A keen footballer, he had played for local team South End Rangers and had also tunred out for Cliftonville FC, then one of the glamour teams of Irish soccer. McNabney was employed as a shoemaker but, in his spare time he was one of many local men involved in the Ulster Volunteer movement.

In fact, he was one of the North Antrim Regiment’s top communications men – in modern terms he was an ‘I.T. wizard’. In a pre-war report of a UVF mass mobilisation exercise, McNabney’s role in maintaining the channels of command and control was highly praised.

So it is hardly surprising that his enlistment papers record show him joining the Royal Engineers Signal Company which was being established within the 36th (Ulster) Division. In fact, his papers clearly show the annotation of ‘UVF signals’, further demonstrating the close links between the pre-war paramilitary force and the Division.

He served in France with the Ulster Division from arrival in October 1915, steadily climbing the rank ladder through courses and good conduct. Bluntly, McNabney would have been regarded as an excellent soldier even if he had never won a single gallantry medal. His conduct sheet shows he was keen, efficient and well behaved.

His record of bravery commences with an entry in the London Gazette in which he was mentioned in an addendum to Sir Douglas Haig’s despatches of April 9, 1917.

Sadly, no record can be found of the action which secured the Military Medal which was subsequently awarded and gazetted on March 12, 1918, almost one year after his original ‘mention.’

Just a few months after reporting on his first Military medal, the Ballymena Observer was proud to recount that:-

‘Sergeant J. McNabney, Royal Engineers, Ulster Division, whose relatives reside at 9, Larne Street, Ballymena, has been awarded a ‘bar’ to the Military medal. Sgt. McNabney is well known in football circles and will be remembered as a popular player for South End Rangers Prior to enlisting in August 1914 he was in the employment of Mr. Thomas Kerr, boot and shoe manufacturer, Church Street, Ballymena. His brother Pte. S. McNabney is also serving with the Engineers.’ Ballymena Observer, May 31, 1918.

Once again, the London Gazette confirms the newspaper report in the official language of the time: -

Gazette Edition issue 30873 - 26th August 1918

His Majesty the King has been graciously pleased to approve the award of a bar to the Military Medal to the undermentioned Non-commissioned Officers and Men: 57836 Cpl. (A/Sjt.) J. McNabney M.M. R.E. (Ballymena).

Sadly, bureaucratic language does little to enlighten us beyond the undisputable fact that Sgt. McNabney was an undoubtedly brave man. Thankfully the documentation associated with his third and final award of the DCM is much more informative.

The Distinguished Conduct Medal was instituted in 1854 to recognise ‘distinguished, gallant and good conduct’ by troops in the Crimea. Just 25,000 DCMs were issued during World War I , a relatively small number in proportion to the scale of the forces involved and was regarded second only to the Victoria Cross in prestige terms.With the DCM came a gratuity of £20, no small sum in those days, and a man with a life pension who had won the medal was entitled to an extra six pence per day to this stipend.

The actions for which McNabney received the DCM took place in the ‘final 100 days’ when the rejuvenated allies – and principally the British and Empire forces – were steadily pushing the weakening Germans back on all fronts.

Looking back, we may justifiably ask why a man should continue to take mortal risks when the scent of victory was in the air. The answer is that historians have the advantage of hindsight. The men fighting in Autumn 1918 had no crystal balls, they were engaged in some of the fiercest fighting of the entire war. The patriotic innocence exhibited in the Pals battalions as they marched towards their hour of trial at the Somme had long since evaporated.

British soldiers of late 1918 were ‘sticking it’, to use a contemporary term. They were no jingoes waving flags and shouting slogans, they were men tempered in the furnace of war, they knew their duty and, in the main, they were determined to carry it through.

And so, for seven days from September 29 to Octobver 5, 1918, McNabney maintained his record of efficiency, energy and cold, calculated courage. As his citation states:-

‘In the Dadizeele sector … this NCO was constantly out repairing lines under heavy shell fire and it was chiefly due to his courage and fearlessness that communication was maintained . On 2nd October he went out accompanied by another NCO. and remained out during a very heavy barrage, maintaining communication during the enemy counter attack.’

This short citation illustrates a great truth about industrial scale warfare. The importance of maintaining communications had become as issue of prime importance. The size of the formations involved and the areas fought over had become impossible to control with the simple methods of a previous century.

The signaller – and especially men like McNabney – were vital cogs in the wheels of war.

 

 

Ray

 

 

12th Battalion

  McNabney  has previously been well researched  

plenty of info on the net GOOGLE is your friend

Edited 4 September , 2017 by RaySearching

[clk]

Hmmm...Thinking out loud...

 

In my mind that may add weight to John, and William John perhaps not being the same person. In the 2012 article John is a shoemaker by trade, who joined up in September 1914, and went over in October 1915. The 'obit' (in post #4 ) says that William John joined (the division) in October 1915 and that post war he was a business proprietor in the timber trade. I wonder if the MH106 transcription for 57836 John McNabney might give his age at the time of the event, and the number of months of total service, and months in the field. I can't also help but wonder if the OP has already solved the John/William John dilemma.

 

Regards

Chris

[RaySearching]

Chris

Link to Dedication page  I had come across

 

As you say maybe two different  McNabneys

 

also one would expect to see When John McNabney's  final resting place is found DCM MM inscribed on his grave marker

 

Ray

[clk]

Hi Ray,

 

I think that's a possibility as well. The attestation papers for 57836 John McNabney show him as a 24 year 8 month old (salesman 'now' journeyman) in September 1914 - so born circa 1890. The death details of a William (per the link in post #5) record that William [John]  (who died in Craigavon UVF hospital) in 1941 was age 57 - so born circa 1884.

 

Regards

Chris

[rob elliott]

Hi all,

 

Some years ago I did a bit of research on the Ulster Division Royal Engineers & was in touch with a few people.

McNabney came up quite a bit as he was a well known member of the Division being one of the highest decorated ORs.

 

There are two McNabney's UD Signals

 

W....Sapper 57613....later RFC 108647

J......Sgt 57836, .......corporal to acting Sgt to Sgt

 

57836 is the one I think we agree the OP is after. He also won the Ulster Certificate which was posted 30/6/17 so could be for Messines.

 

There may be a mistake in one of the references as both men have original Ulster Division Royal Engineer numbers so would have enrolled between Sept 14 & Feb 15, and with a 57 [as opposed to the other number they used starting 64...].... I'd say more likely Sept 14, with the Division going to France in October 15.

 

Desmond 7 used to post quite a bit about Ballymena men & I'm sure McNabney comes up in those old postings.

If you google his name & go to images there is a picture of him with his football team.

It is the younger man. I don't think mention of his medals would be on his grave.

 

As Ray says everything you need on him is on the internet. One good evening searching would probably get you all you need for an article.

Somewhere I have the embarkation list for the Signal Company of the Ulster RE's, this gives home addresses. Not sure if its coincidence but seems a number of them came from around Ballymena.

It should be noted the Ulster Volunteer Force had a signal & despatch rider section who's signal section was very advanced using a new style of lamp that the British Army hadn't yet adopted [1913-14]. They then had a large number of men already semi trained in semaphore easily transferable into Engineers.

 

Rob

[rob elliott]

'12th'

 

I should have looked for Des' old posts before I posted, there is conversation I was having with him about McNabney......well it was quite a while ago, 2004, can't remember all my research, ha!

 

Mentions a brother too, worth looking at, just search 'McNabney'

 

Rob

[12th battalion]

I have been doing some more work and the person I am after is John McNabney who died in April 20th 1940 and is buried in Armagh New Presbyterian cemetery so it is a trek down to Armagh tomorrow morning to try and find his grave. Many thanks again to everybody for their help.