Enlistment, Attestation dates and places: the Gibb family

[rolt968]

I apologise if this has brought up before. Unusually I am able to supply  both the date and place of enlistment and attestation of two men.

I would appreciate it if members could confirm (or not) if my conclusions are correct.

 

John Robert Gibb, his two brothers (one only just over 16) and his cousin Charles Proctor Gibb enlisted at the Brechin Fair in November 1914. John and Charles enlisted in the Scots Guards and have successive serial numbers (12518 and 12519). The brothers enlisted in the Black Watch.

Parts of John and Charles's records survive. The attestation forms are virtually identical.

 

According to the local almanac the Brechin Fair was on the first Tuesday after 21 November. In 1914 I believe that was 24 November.

 

To the question (on the attestation form) "Did you receive a notice........? The answer is "Yes" from "A Walker, QM Sergt, Recruiting Sergeant".

Am I right in assuming that QM Sgt Walker was the recruiting sergeant at the Brechin Fair? Also that the notice required the man to report to a particular place within a certain number of days?

 

Both John and Charles attested in Forfar on 8 December 1914 in front of H Vincent R G Arty, Recruiting Officer. QM Sgt Walker witnessed the men's signatures.

Would the form have specified Forfar? It was the county town. Also for would be Scots Guardsmen it was on the West Coast Mainline between Aberdeen and London. On the other hand there were magistrates nearer home in Brechin.

 

I haven't found anything about the attestation of the two brothers.

 

Presumably John and Charles were given railway warrants and got on the train as they joined at Caterham on 9 December 1914.

 

Charles survived and John died just after the war of disease, so neither appear in Soldiers Died in the Great War. Presumably if one of them had, his place of enlistment would have been given as Forfar since that is the place which appears in his record?

 

RM

Edited 17 August , 2017 by rolt968

[Guest]

The only info I can find that might be of use is the attestation form for No. 12566 Pte Thomas Salmond (only 48 numbers away) who was also resident in Forfar. His attestation form does show place of enlistment as Forfar.

 

The correlation between Army Numbers and place of enlistment is low.

No. 12513 enlisted in Poplar, London

No. 12517 enlisted in Preston, Lancashire

No. 12530 enlisted in Edinburgh

No. 12566 enlisted in Forfar (see above)

No. 12548  enlisted in Glasgow 8th Dec 1914. 

 

 

Edited 16 August , 2017 by Guest

[rolt968]

7 minutes ago, QGE said:

The only info I can ind that might be of use is the attestation form for No. 12566 Pte Thomas Salmond (only 48 numbers away) who was also resident in Forfar. His attestation form does show place of enlistment as Forfar.

 

The correlation between Army Numbers and place of enlistment is low.

No. 12513 enlisted in Poplar, London

No. 12517 enlisted in Preston, Lancashire

No. 12530 enlisted in Edinburgh

No. 12566 enlisted in Forfar (see above)

No. 12548  enlisted in Glasgow 8th Dec 1914. 

 

 

Thanks,

I will have a look for Thomas Salmond, to see if he was actually living in Forfar.

RM

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, rolt968 said:

Thanks,

I will have a look for Thomas Salmond, to see if he was actually living in Forfar.

RM

 

Enlisted 3rd Dec 1914 just 5 days after your subjects. Resided in Idvies, North Lodge, Letham. 6 miles from Forfar according to Google Maps

 

Edited 16 August , 2017 by Guest

[rolt968]

19 minutes ago, QGE said:

 

Enlisted 3rd Dec 1914 just 5 days after your subjects. Resided in Idvies, North Lodge, Letham. 6 miles from Forfar according to Google Maps

 

Which date are you going by? Did he attest on 3 December in which case it was before my men.

Forfar was certainly his nearest town.

The Gibbs were living in the parish of Lethnot and Navar, virtually at the head of the glen.

RM

[Guest]

1 hour ago, rolt968 said:

Which date are you going by? Did he attest on 3 December in which case it was before my men.

Forfar was certainly his nearest town.

The Gibbs were living in the parish of Lethnot and Navar, virtually at the head of the glen.

RM

 Sorry...that should read 5 days before, not after. 

 

My understanding of the rural recruiting drives is that men who wanted to join were told to assemble on a certain date in a certain town - usually the nearest County town where (typically) the Town hall or School, or some other municipal building had been given over to be used as the central recruiting office. The recruiters would tour the county, and would target large massed gatherings such as fairs etc. I have done this exercise for the Derbyshire Yeomanry and the paper-trail strongly suggests recruiting consolidating on the hubs of the larger county towns in the shire.

 

It is interesting that your two subjects joined the Scots Guards rather than the Black Watch. I wonder if it was preference or whether height had anything to do with the choice. I believe the Scots Guards had greater height limitations than the line infantry.  12566 Thomas Salmond was 5' 10" tall, as was 12503 Pte David Brown....some 4 inches taller than the average adult male in the UK in 1914.

Edited 16 August , 2017 by Guest

[rolt968]

38 minutes ago, QGE said:

 Sorry...that should read 5 days before, not after. 

 

My understanding of the rural recruiting drives is that men who wanted to join were told to assemble on a certain date in a certain tonn - usually the nearest County town where (typically) the Town hall or School, or some other municipal building had been given over to be used as the central recruiting office. The recruiters would tour the county, and would target large massed gatherings such as fairs etc. I have done this exercise for the Derbyshire Yeomanry and the paper-trail strongly suggests recruiting consolidating on the hubs of the larger county towns in the shire.

 

It is interesting that your two subjects joined the Scots Guards rather than the Black Watch. I wonder if it was preference or whether height had anything to do with the choice. I believe the Scots Guards had greater height limitations than the line infantry.  12566 Thomas Salmond was 5' 10" tall, as was 12503 Pte David Brown....some 4 inches taller than the average Briton in 1914.

 

I have been wondering about the choice of the Scots Guards myself. Unfortunately something has been stuck on top of the part of John Gibb's record which shows his height. Charles was 5ft 8.5in. Both were gamekeepers/deer stalkers so they must have been good shots.

 

Thank you. Your information about the rural recruiting drives is very interesting.

I am very pleased in connection with the Gibbs to be able to make sense of where and from whom they received a "Notice".

 

RM