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royal engineers


Gregory Counsell
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Doing a research on my second Grandfather Frederick John Counsell Service Number 90576 served in the Royal Engineers as a Driver and survived the War but was  wounded. shell Injury discharged on 2nd April1918  ...in the Corps of Royal Engineers.... Did his training at Aldershot joined on the 19th April 1915...Any information to help trace his movements would help to find out where he was injured and the circumstances of that ....he disembarked  on 30th August 1915...I have little else to go on but I do have a picture which I have attatched

 

Grandfather Frederick (Jack) 1917.jpg

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Hi Gregory

 

You don't have his Unit details? I struggled with my Grandfather, also RE, until I came across a flimsy, fragile piece of paper in my mum's belongings which turned outto be his Fulough Pass from the war hospital in Bristol. It named his Unit and from there I was able to get his unit War Diary which fitted perfectly with the outline of what I already knew and postcards he sent home. It has been wonderful tracking his movements, I hope you can do the same eventually.

 

Meantime, take a look at this thread. There are lists posted on there of RE wounded & casualties. If you can find him this way you should be able to discover his Unit. I knew my Grandad had been injured but now know exactly when.

Good luck!

 

 

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Gregory

I have just looked on my index. He does not appear on any of the casualty lists that I have posted so far. I will keep a look out for him and will do a FMP check on his number on Thursday.

Brian

EDIT:

In the 1914-15 Medal Rolls there are a number of names alongside 90576 F J Counsell with the same disembarkation date 30/08/1915. One of them 90582 A N Richardson was k in a on 09/08/1917. SDGW shows his Unit as 103 Field Company. Another man 90634 Robinson has a service record that shows he landed in France on 30/08/1915 with 103 FC. My notes tell me that o/rs are rarely named in the 103 FC WDs for 1916. A good starting point and also the WDs for the Commander Royal Engineers 24 Div.

Brian 

Edited by brianmorris547
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to Brianmorris547

Thanks for the Input and hopefully something will come up on Thursday...when you check I do know that a year after he left the Army due to his injuries he joined the Royal Navy but after a short time had to retire through ill health....

His movements when he was injured was something that I wanted to find out about.. wondering if he was taken by field ambulance or some other transport it would seem that his injuries Scars to the buttocks etc. by  shell wound would have been recorded somewhere... and looking at the date of his leaving .. I wonder if it happened around that time or just before... if I determine where he was then it might open other avenues.. for research but the 103 thread is interesting and this links to the 24th Division....

regards

Greg

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Greg

Some casualties are named in the 1917 WD of 103 FC but not numbered and then on 31/07 it simply states 3 sappers wounded. It reverts on 28/10 by stating Spr Dawson wounded. It gives numbers where men were decorated e.g. 05/02/1917 Corps Commander awards MM to 61618 Spr Yirrell C and 40203 Wilkes C H. They had taken part in a trench raid on 25/01/1917. The other Field Companies of 24 Div, 104 and 129 disembarked at Havre on 01/09/1915 so it still looks like 103 FC is the more likely. The Sigs Co also disembarked on 30/08/1915.

Brian

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Hello Gregory

 

I had not noticed this thread when I replied on your other thread relating to Richard Jones, but that reply is consistent with all the information above.

 

Ron

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Ron

Have just come across the Badge Number for Richard Jones service Number 106961  which is B218989 he was class "P" ar. RFA When discharged his cap badge might be helpful in what unit he was ..????

 

And again Frederick John Counsell Service Number 90576  his Cap Badge is 372016  reason for discharge Shell wound would any of this be helpful... particularly for Richard as we still unsure of his Hat badge or unit in the picture...???

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Gregory

 

Are you confusing regimental or corps cap badges (which, if they had any number, would be the same as the service number) with the Silver War Badge? The latter, which were serially numbered as issued, were awarded to all soldiers who were wounded as a result of enemy action or otherwise on active service.

 

Ron

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Gregory, lets keep all matters relating to FJ Counsell here otherwise I too will get confused !

 

He appears as wounded in the Daily Casualty List of 11/10/17

      

Forename F J
Surname Counsell
Casualty Status Wounded
Rank Driver
Service Number 90576
Regiment Royal Engineers
Category WO's, NCO's and Men
Home Town / Place of Enlistment Taunton
Daily List Date 11th October 1917

 

At this time there was typically a 1 month delay in published notification. So he was probably wounded early September 1917.

 

Charlie

Edited by charlie962
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As you will see from the attached list for that day, there are quite a few (~60) RE  wounded being reported. If his was an isolated incident there is not much you can do without knowing the unit.  But if he was one of several in the same unit to be wounded in the same incident then the approach (v long) would be to check the records of all the others and see if there is a pattern that helps guestimate his unit.

              59837a5b87225_CounsellFJwounding.JPG.4b8fbbc2d10301e6debf52e621297917.JPG

Brian may have a more helpful view?

 

Charlie

      

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Did he go into the Navy in 1919 ? They gave him credit for 2 years 350 days Army Service, which fits your dates above April 1915- April 1918.

 

I presume the scars in the Navy record are from the above wounding ?59837c9dd3ad4_CounsellFJscars.JPG.fe2c877fc2924d241834e7c4d1f51aa9.JPG

 

In fact his Navy record shows he was invalided out of the Navy in 1920 due to "old injury, right thigh"

 

Charlie

Edited by charlie962
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Charlie

Thanks for posting the 11/10/1917 list. I went through my 1916 lists but he is not mentioned. I will look again at the WD from August 1917 onwards. In the meantime I did FMP number checks on 90576 RE but no trace of a casualty list. I then did FMP number checks the others on the same 1914-15 medal roll with a disembarkation date of 30/08/1915.

90585 Dvr J Tighe has a Pension Record which shows that he was from Liverpool and went to France with 103 FC. He suffered from myalgia and was discharged on 12/12/1917. 

90589 Dvr A White appears on a 1917 list with no Unit which also shows 95877 Spr H Arksey w on 06/08/1917. 95877 has a Service Record which shows that he was wounded on that date serving with 157 FC (16 Div).

90596 Dvr E G Whybrow is on a partial casualty list for 1916 (which I will be posting later on RE Sick and Wounded 1916 in the Soldiers Forum, as soon as I have indexed the names). He was serving with 77 FC and is mentioned in that WD on 16/10/1916 as being sent to hospital.

Dvrs White and Whybrow did not go to France with 157 FC and 77 FC since those Units did not disembark on 30/08/1915. There are a number of reasons why they may have been transferred. I have seen records which show that if a man was discharged from hospital to Base Details he would have gone to No 4 General Base Depot in Rouen and then to whichever Unit needed reinforcements.

Brian

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