StAubyns Posted 19 December , 2004 Share Posted 19 December , 2004 I have just received my grandfathers naval service record and it would seem that whilst on his first posting to HMS Dreadnougt in March to June 1913 he was sentenced to 10 days cells. Does anyone know what sort of misdemenour would warrant this sort of punishment? regards Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Galatea Posted 19 December , 2004 Share Posted 19 December , 2004 This link will give you a good idea of the offence along with tabulated guidelines for sentencing. http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/KR&AI/Discipline.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAubyns Posted 19 December , 2004 Author Share Posted 19 December , 2004 Thanks for that information Galatea, but not being of a military background I am not certain that I am reading the document correctly. Is the document pointing to Punishment No 9 ie cells to a maximum of 14 days and is punishment No 9 a result of "cursing, swearing & making use of obscene language"? The rest of his service is exemplary, with all of WW1 spent afloat on HMS Dreadnought and HMS Wallflower. I would think that being an ex-miner, he would not have been a stranger to "bad language" regards Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Galatea Posted 19 December , 2004 Share Posted 19 December , 2004 The punishment number relates to the type of punishment not the offence. ie; when I was up at the table with me cap in me hand No9s was extra duties and mustering in the correct rig for the time of day for inspection at 0630, 1230, 1730 and 2100 also stoppage of leave. We also had 10s and 14s which were less onerous. No1s was hanging from the yardarm. If your gf got 10 days then you could probably think that it was for one of the offences warranting 10 days in the rightmost columns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAubyns Posted 19 December , 2004 Author Share Posted 19 December , 2004 Ok, so the numbers under "Normal Maximum Summary Punishment" are "days"? Plenty of offences to chose from then; so I will probably never know the cause of his punishment. I didnt realise the extent of offences that warranted confinement. regards geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Galatea Posted 19 December , 2004 Share Posted 19 December , 2004 Yep days, but as it says at the start. 'This list is not exhaustive', so any other percieved offence is also covered. Did you catch the bit about 'Consequent penalties'? This was and still is a catch all. If you are convicted of an offence in a civilian court you then face Consequential Naval Penalties for being a bad boy. Tough life but I still loved it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAubyns Posted 21 December , 2004 Author Share Posted 21 December , 2004 Galatea - I keep going back to the 2 tables in the KR's; looking further at Table 1 "Normal Maximum Summary Punishment" how can they be units of "Days"? i.e for the offence of Desertion the number in the right hand column is 1 whilst for Being Habitually Slovenly or Dirty it is 10. Surely this is the offence number? i.e Offence Number 1 in the second table gives a penalty of "Dismissal with Disgrace" and Offence Number 10 gives a penalty of Extra Work and Drill.The punishment then fits the crime in my view. The problem with this is that there are no offences numbered 2,5,8 or 9 in Table 1. you say "a tough life but I enjoyed it" I just dont understand how you understood the Regs!!! regards Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Galatea Posted 21 December , 2004 Share Posted 21 December , 2004 Geoff I think you may well be right. The number on the right is the punishment number not the amount of days. I phoned a friend of mine who is still serving and he tells me that the punishment numbers have changed since I left in the late 80s. I will have another look through the 1913 KR/AI and try and find the tables which lay down the punishments for the relevant numbers but remember that these are summary punishments that did not require a 'warrant' and therefore No1 would be different from 'warrant' No1 which was excecution. I'll get looking. Davie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Galatea Posted 22 December , 2004 Share Posted 22 December , 2004 Having had a good look, the punishment number for detention was 4 as in the second part of the table so the corresponding offence in table 1 would have 4 in the right hand column. Also there is punishment 9 which was detention in a cell or under a canvas screen for up to 14 days but this is not mentioned in table 1 as a punishment. I think that you would have to take your pick from the offences that warrant a number 4 punishment. Does your gf's service record mention a code number where the punishment was recorded? Davie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAubyns Posted 27 December , 2004 Author Share Posted 27 December , 2004 Davie, I have done a bit of googling tring to find the missing offence numbers i.e 2,5,8 & 9 but to no avail , so I suppose this is the end of the trail.I cannot see any references on his service records that apear to be connected with his punishment but there is one comment that I do not understand under "Character & Ability" and that is the first entry under this heading which appears to be "q/q4q/13" and this is in the "date" column. After this entry there is an annual assesment every year on the 31st December from 1913 to 1921. He got his 10 days cells on the 17th June 1913 so (grasping at straws but not holding my breath)maybe there is a connection here. There does not appear to be a lot of info on the net about the ships he served on either. He was on HMS Dreadnought from 8th March 1913 to 4th May 1917, then on HMS Wildflower from 1st December 1917 to 31st July 1919. He finished his service on the Royal Yacht Victoria & Albert.He was invalided out with Pulmonary Tuberculosis on 6th 1922 and died in 1925. Thanks very much for your input on this regards Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Galatea Posted 27 December , 2004 Share Posted 27 December , 2004 I think that the entry "q/q4q/13" must refer to the punishment awarded. The annual assessments should be 'VG Mod, VG Sat, VG Sup or VG Exp'. The good news is that any sailor serving on the Royal Yacht needed a VG (Superior) or VG (Exemplary) or their historic counterparts for a few years before being considered for service on the RY. Davie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAubyns Posted 27 December , 2004 Author Share Posted 27 December , 2004 Davie, your are right about his assesments -1914 to 1918 are VG/Sat whilst 1919 to 1921 are VG/Supr. Before he joined the Victoria & Albert he was Leading Stoker but on his transfer he had to revert Stoker 1B. I am starting to find being able to discuss my gf's career in "days" rather bizarre - 3 weeks ago all anyone in the family knew was his name, now I have all this info and last week, along with my sister, I was able to stand by his grave, albeit unmarked. We intend to remedy this shortly. I am starting to also beleive in coincidence! He joined the RN on 26th March 1912, which 40 years later was his grandaughters birthday; and one of the 2 references I have found relating to the Victoria & Albert refers to a cruise to Guernsey"where they were met by elements of the french Navy in St Aubins Bay". The house where we live is called "St Aubyns"(the name came with the house when we bought it.) regards Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Galatea Posted 27 December , 2004 Share Posted 27 December , 2004 Heres one your gf helped sink. http://uboat.net/wwi/boats/index.html?boat=32 HMS Walflower was a Arabis class sweeping sloop, from Nov '15 till she was sold off in Aug '31. Below is a picture of her sister ship HMS Snapdragon. Davie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAubyns Posted 27 December , 2004 Author Share Posted 27 December , 2004 Davie The other one is http://uboat.net/wwi/boats/index.html?boat=29 for HMS Dreadnought. I havent come across any other references to the service records of these 2 ships - I must start looking in the Military/Naval book world for further reading. The photo is interesting - I will look for paintings / prints of Dreadnought & wildflower, I would think that they exist. regards Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob H Posted 4 January , 2005 Share Posted 4 January , 2005 Geoff This site has many photo's of HMS Dreadnought, and a short history: http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-forn...h-d/drednt9.htm I hope this is useful Regards Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAubyns Posted 5 January , 2005 Author Share Posted 5 January , 2005 Thanks for that Bob - one I'd missed! regards Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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