52001, AC1 Charles Henry Dalton

[RFT]

Am trying to determine date of death for 52001, AC1 Charles Henry Dalton.

 

A pencil note on the service record states "Died 1921 or before."

As a widow, Mrs Ellen Eliza Dalton was awarded 26/8 plus 10/- for children from 26 Nov 1920 to 13 June 1930.  Award suggests Mr Dalton would have passed away pre-26 Nov 1920 but alas have found no trace!  Have checked the CWGC but cannot locate any reference to him.

 

Record of service also provides us with the following "Malta from 1 Feb 1917 to 9 Oct 1919."  Yet it also states he moved from 150 Squadron to 47 Squadron,13 March 1919 and on 10 Oct 1919 from 47 Squadron to depot Halton Camp?  Latter info must be correct as I have a record of him in hospital in south Russia 20 July to 18 Aug 1919.

 

Mr Dalton was deemed discharged 30 April 1920.  Last known to be residing Dulwich Village, London.

 

It seems Mr Dalton passed away sometime between 30 April and 29th Nov 1920.  Perchance does anyone know precisely when?

 

Rob

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 29 August , 2019 by RFT
Additional tag included.

[IPT]

There's a burial in Southwark on 18th November 1920? - https://www.deceasedonline.com/servlet/GSDOSearch

 

Certainly, it appears to be Oct-Dec Qtr 1920 - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2JCF-R2Q

Edited 25 June , 2017 by IPT

[RFT]

Thank you IPT for your input.

 

Have never before come across the website deceasedonline.   Having just accessed it and paid my dues, I've obtained the information I was looking for.

 

Mr Dalton was age 35 years when he passed away in November 1920.

 

Thanks again,

 

Rob

 

Edited 25 June , 2017 by RFT

[RFT]

Update -

Have today made contact with CWGC with a view to seeing Mr Dalton's name included in the register of War Dead.  Documentary evidence including Mr Dalton's service record, birth and death certificates plus any other supporting information has to be submitted to the Commemoration Team at CWGC.  Have been warned that the whole process could take months, or even years, to process!

 

Weekly pension award to Mrs Dalton, at a rate of 26/8 plus 10/- for her daughter, confirms Mr Dalton's death was a consequence of (a) wounds or injuries received in the performance of military duty within seven years of receiving such wounds or injuries, or (b) died of disease certified as contracted or commencing while on active service during the war, or as having been aggravated by such active service, within seven years of his removal from duty!

 

[John_Hartley]

Rob

 

I'm responding to your PM here, so that the info is all together for readers.

 

From reading your post #4, much of CWGC/MoD's view about commemoration will depend on the cause of death recorded on the death certificate. There has to be a clear link to cause of discharge for something caused or aggravated by war service. Unfortunately the pension award details don't go into specifics of the discharge. However, if cause of death is due to wounds/injuries then there is an obvious direct link. Death from an illness will be trickier to establish a link, unless the certificate mentions how long he had been ill and that takes us back to the perod of his service. Even without that length of illness, there may well be a case to be made. We know he was hospitalised for a month in 1919 ( although we do not know why) and shortly after is returned to depot. That may be technical posting and he was still "off sick" (although we don't know), being discharged shortly after and dying a few months later. Everything going to hinge on the cause of death.

 

Assuming we agree there's a case to be made, In From the Cold Project will be happy to act on your behalf in making the submission to CWGC (and we'll refund you the cost of the death certificate). Or we'll be happy to offer you an opinion on the cause of death if you prefer to make the submission yourself.

 

John

[RFT]

Thanks John. 

 

Your help and assistance in this matter will be very much appreciated.  Please proceed with making the submission to the CWGC.  Have not yet pursued the death certificate.  Is this something you can deal with or would you prefer that I did this?  Please advise? 

 

Mr Dalton is not a relative but rather one of the 300 plus other ranks who served with 47 "A" Squadron in South Russia.  Several of the Squadron's men were seriously ill with Typhus and/or TB while serving in Russia and hospitalized there at Denikin's Mission Hospital.  Others were dispatched to hospital at Constantinople.  Others may yet be brought to your attention! 

 

I live in hope of seeing Mr Dalton's name among the CWGC roll.  Let's see what can be done.

 

Rob 

[John_Hartley]

Rob

 

We'll need you to get the death certificate.

 

Give me a shout via PM when it arrives so we can discuss what it says. Assuming it all looks OK, we'll need scanned copies of everything and can then get it off to CWGC. I've had a preliminary discussion with Terry Denham and we agree that if all looks good, then it seems a spot on case.

 

The fact that you have evidence of his comrades also being hospitalised can only help the case, assuming his cause of death is related to typhus or TB.

 

John

[RFT]

Thanks John. 

 

Will get back to you when I have the death certificate.

 

Rob

[RFT]

On 05/07/2017 at 10:57, John_Hartley said:

Rob

 

I'm responding to your PM here, so that the info is all together for readers.

 

From reading your post #4, much of CWGC/MoD's view about commemoration will depend on the cause of death recorded on the death certificate. There has to be a clear link to cause of discharge for something caused or aggravated by war service. Unfortunately the pension award details don't go into specifics of the discharge. However, if cause of death is due to wounds/injuries then there is an obvious direct link. Death from an illness will be trickier to establish a link, unless the certificate mentions how long he had been ill and that takes us back to the perod of his service. Even without that length of illness, there may well be a case to be made. We know he was hospitalised for a month in 1919 ( although we do not know why) and shortly after is returned to depot. That may be technical posting and he was still "off sick" (although we don't know), being discharged shortly after and dying a few months later. Everything going to hinge on the cause of death.

 

Assuming we agree there's a case to be made, In From the Cold Project will be happy to act on your behalf in making the submission to CWGC (and we'll refund you the cost of the death certificate). Or we'll be happy to offer you an opinion on the cause of death if you prefer to make the submission yourself.

 

John

 

Have this very day received a Certified Copy of an Entry of Death for Mr Dalton - details at foot of this post.

 

As earlier mentioned in this topic - The RAF pension (Case no.1862) awarded Mrs Dalton, in the sum of 26/8 plus 10/- for her daughter, would only have been awarded to the widow if death was a consequence of (a) wounds or injuries received in the performance of military duty within seven years of receiving such wounds and injuries, or (b) died of disease certified as contracted or commencing while on active service during the war, or as having been aggravated by such service, within seven years of his removal from duty.  The stated sum would not have been paid for any other reason!  

 

I can confirm Mr Dalton was admitted to the military hospital while in south Russia during the period 20/07/1919-18/08/19 but the reason is not recorded. 

 

More facts - Mr Dalton served with 47 Squadron (Russia) from 13/03/19 to 10/10/19 at which latter date he appears at the RAF Depot.  Thereafter transferring to the Reserve on the 10/12/19.  Deemed discharged 30th April 1920.

 

Notes in his service record confirm documents had been dispatched to the Ministry of Pensions (Case No. 1862 RAF).

 

From Certificate of Death - 

Date of death.  15th Nov., 1920.

Occupation.  Electrician Ex Mechanic Royal Air Force No 52001.

Cause of Death.  1. Tubercular peritonitis. 2. Intestinal obstruction.  Certified.

 

I believe we have a strong case here and would very much welcome your opinion.

 

Sorry its been so long in following up this matter.

 

Regards,

 

Rob

 

 

Edited 28 August , 2019 by RFT
Additional information.

[Terry Denham]

Rob and I have discussed this man off forum and I have looked at the circumstances.

 

At the moment, there is insufficient evidence to start to make a case for CWGC commemoration. We do not know that the man's fatal illness was due to or aggravated by service (the required qualification). Sadly, his service record is silent on the subject and does not even give his cause of discharge so no connection can be made with his death.

 

However, more research may bring forth the required information and so I have kept his name on IFCP's files - just in case something turns up.

[RFT]

At this time, this case seems to be dead in the water!  However ....

 

On 26/06/2017 at 10:49, RFT said:

 

Weekly pension award to Mrs Dalton, at a rate of 26/8 plus 10/- for her daughter, confirms Mr Dalton's death was a consequence of (a) wounds or injuries received in the performance of military duty within seven years of receiving such wounds or injuries, or (b) died of disease certified as contracted or commencing while on active service during the war, or as having been aggravated by such active service, within seven years of his removal from duty!

 

 

Is there a GWF member who is possessed of expertise in war pensions who can explain the reason and/or purpose of the pension granted Mrs Dalton (if not as described above)?   

 

Rob

 

[travers61]

Is their an inquest mentioned on the death certificate ?  If so details may have been in a local newspaper or the actual inquest papers may survive at the London Metropolitan Archives or a Local record Office.  Some of these were destroyed in the WW2 paper salvage drives.

[RFT]

Thanks for responding.

 

Absolutely no mention of an inquest!  Nothing more on the certificate other than the usual details, when and where died, person present at the death, etc. 

 

I live in hope that a possible descendant (child/children survived him) may come across this topic and enlighten me!  Nothing would please me more than to see Mr Dalton commemorated.  By the way, he is not a relative nor in any other way connected to me (other than being one of the other ranks, 47 Squadron, south Russia).

 

Rob

 

Edited 29 August , 2019 by RFT
Correction to text.