Dartford / Crayford area newspaper look up please? May have identified an Unknown and want 'proof'

[steve fuller]

Afternoon all, 

 

Within the limits of the forums copyright rules (fair use?), would anyone have access to the Dartford newspapers please?

 

I think I've identified the occupant of an Unknown soldiers grave but am after something to link in before compiling the info for CWGC.

 

SDGW records Private 8863 Ernest William Constant of the 1st Battalion, Bedfordshire Regiment as born and resident of Dartford. 

 

KIA 7/11/1914, Le Touret Memorial - http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/1559348/CONSTANT, ERNEST WILLIAM 

 

So anything such as a letter referring to him being buried in a certain area would be useful as I have the map coordinates the body was found in.

 

Long shot but you can never tell ... 

Edited 30 May , 2017 by steve fuller
Edit title for accuracy

[John_Hartley]

Steve

 

Just out of interest, what makes you think you've an ID? I see CWGC lists 51 Bedfords, died on 7/11. 42 of them, like Constant, have no known grave and are commemorated on Le Touret. Is there something special that makes you think you have an ID of one of them

 

John

[steve fuller]

1 hour ago, John_Hartley said:

Steve

 

Just out of interest, what makes you think you've an ID? I see CWGC lists 51 Bedfords, died on 7/11. 42 of them, like Constant, have no known grave and are commemorated on Le Touret. Is there something special that makes you think you have an ID of one of them

 

John

Long shot at the moment but if a snippet falls into place, as it often does, I was thinking it would be worth the effort:

 

On the concentration form of 2Lt Graves (KIA same day, same Bn) - http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/484219/GRAVES, WALTER FRANCIS - the second line records 8803 marked on soldiers boot. I was curious (!) so looked into all possibilities (8803, 3/8803 and 4/8803 being the relevant ones in the Bedfordshire Regiment in November 1914) of who it may have been and Constant was 8863. The rest of the concentration sheet includes other 1st Bedfordshire KIA 7/11/1914 so it seemed a reasonable assumption that some or all of the unknowns were also 1st Bedfordshires or from their Brigade lost that day.

 

8863 was just so close to 8803 that I thought it worth seeing if I can find some corroborating evidence. So I went to look for letters in the County papers to his NOK - as I have come across many such before - remarking that he was buried somewhere or other. However, he was a Kent lad, not a Bedfordshire one, so I came to a crashing halt! I though that with luck it would slot in with his original burial place which seems to have been a massed grave with the 1st Bedfords KIA that day and perhaps be enough to peak the CWGC's interest!

 

Long shot I know but you never know unless you ask!

Edited 30 May , 2017 by steve fuller
typo

[John_Hartley]

Not a bad bet, Steve. Easy for the concentration troops to have slightly misread the number but, I agree with you, some confirmation information is needed to add weight as I don't think there's yet enough to put to CWGC. Just one more thing needed........

 

If anyone does volunteer for the local papers, ask them to check the following couple of years to see if there's an "In Memorium" notice that might have some info. Is he on a local war memorial and, if so, has anyone done any research?

 

J

[steve fuller]

Just now, John_Hartley said:

Not a bad bet, Steve. Easy for the concentration troops to have slightly misread the number but, I agree with you, some confirmation information is needed to add weight as I don't think there's yet enough to put to CWGC. Just one more thing needed........

 

If anyone does volunteer for the local papers, ask them to check the following couple of years to see if there's an "In Memorium" notice that might have some info. Is he on a local war memorial and, if so, has anyone done any research?

 

J

Genuinely thanks for the remarks John as it is always invaluable to have someone else look at it with an impartial perspective! 

 

If Dartford is anything like Bermondsey then I don't expect details to have been published in the local rags but I'm hoping they were more like the Bedfordshire County papers and had space, time and interest enough to share extracts from letters. 

[John_Hartley]

I see (from the Kent Fallen website) that he's not on the Dartford memorial nor is he mentioned by the website anywhere else.

[steve fuller]

5 minutes ago, John_Hartley said:

I see (from the Kent Fallen website) that he's not on the Dartford memorial nor is he mentioned by the website anywhere else.

Mmmm, Plus his NOK is referred to as 'Late' on CWGC, not on any Bedfordshire or Hertfordshire memorials that I have access to although Constant is a surname which appears in Bedfordshire and the regiment. May have to scratch deeper if no-one comes up with the magic answer by tonight as he may have been a proverbial professional soldier with no family by 1914 if I'm really unlucky.

[ss002d6252]

9 minutes ago, steve fuller said:

Mmmm, Plus his NOK is referred to as 'Late' on CWGC, not on any Bedfordshire or Hertfordshire memorials that I have access to although Constant is a surname which appears in Bedfordshire and the regiment. May have to scratch deeper if no-one comes up with the magic answer by tonight as he may have been a proverbial professional soldier with no family by 1914 if I'm really unlucky.

He had family alive until 1919.
 

The effects records show two payments were made (as is the standard process).
 

11 Jan 16 - unpaid wages etc were paid to his Father James

9 Aug 19 - war gratuity was paid to his Father James.

 

 

The only James Constant I can see who died between 1919 and 1930 was 73yr old James Constant who died in Canterbury in 1928.

 

Craig

Edited 30 May , 2017 by ss002d6252

[steve fuller]

Just now, ss002d6252 said:

He had family alive until 1919.
 

The effects records show two payments were made (as is the standard process).
 

11 Jan 16 - unpaid wages etc were paid to his Father James

9 Aug 19 - war gratuity was paid to his Father James.

 

Craig

Good news, thanks Craig. So his father died between 1919 and 1922 ish, whenever the CWGC may have added his entry to the database.

 

Just seen an ancestry member with him in their tree and remarks on the entry, which suggests more than just someone adding yet another record to a tree. Hope they can shed light. 

[ss002d6252]

Just now, steve fuller said:

Good news, thanks Craig. So his father died between 1919 and 1922 ish, whenever the CWGC may have added his entry to the database.

 

Just seen an ancestry member with him in their tree and remarks on the entry, which suggests more than just someone adding yet another record to a tree. Hope they can shed light. 

I added some text to my earlier post (crossed with you)

 

Quote

The only James Constant I can see who died between 1919 and 1930 was 73yr old James Constant who died in Canterbury in 1928.

Craig

[steve fuller]

Just now, ss002d6252 said:

I added some text to my earlier post (crossed with you)

 

Craig

Thanks Craig - the ancestry member even has a photo of him, so this is promising and he may be motivated to wade in and help (you would imagine) ...

[ss002d6252]

1 minute ago, steve fuller said:

Thanks Craig - the ancestry member even has a photo of him, so this is promising and he may be motivated to wade in and help (you would imagine) ...

Always good if you can get verifiable information from family (fingers crossed)

 

Just noticed CWGC have the father as 'Nelson James' - obviously preferred to use James though.
 

Nelson James died in Dartford in 1920 aged 78.

 

Craig

[steve fuller]

4 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

Always good if you can get verifiable information from family (fingers crossed)

 

Just noticed CWGC have the father as 'Nelson James' - obviously preferred to use James though.
 

Nelson James died in Dartford in 1920 aged 78.

 

Craig

Here we go, getting there ... Nelson was former Royal Artillery, 1911 census shows him in Crayford, with Ernest serving in the 2nd Bedfordshires in Bermuda at the time. 

[Indefatigable]

Ancestry also has a burial record for Nelson James Constant, he was buried on 6th January 1920 and his address has been recorded as 3 Maxim Road Crayford although it might be Marine Road. It is difficult to read. It can be found under "Bexley, Kent, England, Church of England Deaths and Burials, 1813-1985"

 

regards

 

indefatigable

[steve fuller]

14 hours ago, Indefatigable said:

Ancestry also has a burial record for Nelson James Constant, he was buried on 6th January 1920 and his address has been recorded as 3 Maxim Road Crayford although it might be Marine Road. It is difficult to read. It can be found under "Bexley, Kent, England, Church of England Deaths and Burials, 1813-1985"

 

regards

 

indefatigable

Thanks Indefatigable - waiting for the ancestry member to respond and am hoping someone with FMP or similar membership will help with a nice Snipping Tool clip!

[wandererpaul]

There doesn't seem that be any 'hits' in the newspaper archives (on FMP). No Ernest Constant, E W Constant, Constant 8863, Constant Bedfordshire Regiment, etc etc

[Indefatigable]

Steve

 

I can do that see below.

 

From Ancestry ref Bexley, Kent, England, Church of England Deaths and Burials, 1813-1985 for Nelson James Constant Crayford, St Paulinus  1920

 

 

 

 

regards

 

Indefatigable

 

 

 

 

Edited 31 May , 2017 by Indefatigable
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[steve fuller]

7 minutes ago, wandererpaul said:

There doesn't seem that be any 'hits' in the newspaper archives (on FMP). No Ernest Constant, E W Constant, Constant 8863, Constant Bedfordshire Regiment, etc etc

Oh bum ... thanks for looking Paul 

5 minutes ago, Indefatigable said:

Steve

 

I can do that see below.

 

From Ancestry ref Bexley, Kent, England, Church of England Deaths and Burials, 1813-1985 for Nelson James Constant Crayford, St Paulinus  1920

 

 

 

 

regards

 

Indefatigable

 

 

 

 

Thanks again Indifategable

[steve fuller]

Seem to have drawn a blank with potential additional information to support the theory, so have collated what I have together and passed it to the CWGC.

 

Fingers crossed but I suspect it is missing that last little link they will need.