Unixman Posted 7 May , 2017 Share Posted 7 May , 2017 My brother and I have been researching our grandfather, Maj JCM Mostyn MC and after a lot of work we have tracked him across France and Belgium from 1914 to 1917. There are some questions that remain and I wonder if someone here can answer: Why was grandfather posted to No 2 Cadet School, Topsham Barracks, Exeter from 23.03.1917 when he was an experienced regular officer who had attended Woolwich? (He had been in France, and at 4 major battles since 08.09.1914.) How long did officers serve at the front with the RFA before a home posting? He had just been promoted Acting Major on 02.02.1917. While many infantry officers had accelerated promotion due to great loss of numbers, was it much slower in the RFA? He attended 25th Field Course on 22.09.1918 presumably to prepare him for the field rank of major. He returned to 72 Battery on 09.11.1918. Was that date significant? Can anyone help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 7 May , 2017 Share Posted 7 May , 2017 Unixman: Hopefully some answers to your questions: 1. From the way you state your question about No. 2 Cadet School it appears that you have concluded that he went to the school as a student which is not the case. He was posted there as a member of the instructional staff because he was an experienced officer. This was not unusual at all as experienced officers were needed at these school to prepare the officer cadets for service with batteries in the field. I am researching a similar case with an RGA Major who served at the front in command of a battery from May 1916 to December 1916 and was then posted to the Permanent Staff of No. 1 RGA Cadet School at Trowbridge from 1917 to 1918. 2. I am not sure what data you used to determine that promotion of infantry officers was more accelerated than artillery officers and I have not studied that particular question so do not have any documented information, but looking at the October 1918 Half-Yearly Army List (which covers only regular officers) there does not seem to be any significance difference between when infantry officers originally commissioned in 1911 (the year Mostyn was commissioned) were appointed Acting Majors and artillery officers commissioned the same year. 3. As far as I can determine there is no significance to the date 9 November 1918 or his appointment at that time to a unit at the front, only that he had completed the 25th Field Course and had returned in command. Regards, Dick Flory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 7 May , 2017 Share Posted 7 May , 2017 (edited) The Nov 1918 Army List records the July 1911 RHA/RFA commissions thus [+ casualties] : Mostyn looks quite typical -- alive.. and a decorated Captain and/or acting Major.. I might add that as it was not uncommon for RFA Lts to command batteries as a/Majors, listed ranks commonly under-represent their command experience,.. Desmond John. Falkiner Morton. Captain MC Langley Browning. Captain a/Major MC William Ralph Elliot Harrison. Captain a/Major DSO William Alfred Danby. Captain Hugh Robert Lodge. Captain MC Guy de Laval Landon. ' . Captain MC Edward Latham. Captain MC Austin Graves Bates. Captain a/Major TF DSO MC Cusack Norman Roney-Dougal. Captain a/Major James Olpherts Campbell. Captain a/Major MC George Sumpter. Captain a/Major DSO MC Joseph Cecil Mary Mostyn. Captain a/Major MC James Douglas Gaussen MacNeece. kia 1916 as Captain Arthur Foulkes Baglietto Cottrell. Captain a/Major DSO Otto Marling Lund. Captain a/Major DSO Charles Elles Stuart Beatson. dow 1917 Captain a/Major Norman Hugh Huttenbach. Captain a/Major MC MC Owen Hart. t/a/Major Patrick Hallam Murray. kia 1915 as Captain Marcus Winslow Huish. Captain a/Major Arthur George Hewson. Captain a/Major TF MC George Walter Thomas Lindsay. kia 1917 capt in RFC Ronald Francis Simson. kia 1914 as Lt Clifford Thomason Beckett. Captain a/Major MC Ernest Henry Pakeman Jackson. Captain Lionel Gallwey Lutyens. dow 1918 Captain a/Major Edited 7 May , 2017 by battiscombe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unixman Posted 8 May , 2017 Author Share Posted 8 May , 2017 17 hours ago, battiscombe said: The Nov 1918 Army List records the July 1911 RHA/RFA commissions thus [+ casualties] : Mostyn looks quite typical -- alive.. and a decorated Captain and/or acting Major.. I might add that as it was not uncommon for RFA Lts to command batteries as a/Majors, listed ranks commonly under-represent their command experience,.. An interesting name there ( apart from my grandfather that is :-) ) Desmond John. Falkiner Morton. Captain MC <- Became Churchill's confidant and fed him confidential information in the run up to WW2https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Morton_(civil_servant) Langley Browning. Captain a/Major MC William Ralph Elliot Harrison. Captain a/Major DSO William Alfred Danby. Captain Hugh Robert Lodge. Captain MC Guy de Laval Landon. ' . Captain MC Edward Latham. Captain MC Austin Graves Bates. Captain a/Major TF DSO MC Cusack Norman Roney-Dougal. Captain a/Major James Olpherts Campbell. Captain a/Major MC George Sumpter. Captain a/Major DSO MC Joseph Cecil Mary Mostyn. Captain a/Major MC James Douglas Gaussen MacNeece. kia 1916 as Captain Arthur Foulkes Baglietto Cottrell. Captain a/Major DSO Otto Marling Lund. Captain a/Major DSO Charles Elles Stuart Beatson. dow 1917 Captain a/Major Norman Hugh Huttenbach. Captain a/Major MC MC Owen Hart. t/a/Major Patrick Hallam Murray. kia 1915 as Captain Marcus Winslow Huish. Captain a/Major Arthur George Hewson. Captain a/Major TF MC George Walter Thomas Lindsay. kia 1917 capt in RFC Ronald Francis Simson. kia 1914 as Lt Clifford Thomason Beckett. Captain a/Major MC Ernest Henry Pakeman Jackson. Captain Lionel Gallwey Lutyens. dow 1918 Captain a/Major Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 26 November , 2017 Share Posted 26 November , 2017 Hi hope you can help me to, my Grandfather served in the Great War RFA, now at some point he saved his commanding officer, who found himself in trouble stuck out in no mans land, and about to be cut down, this is where my grandfather steps in, he jumped on is horse and rode out, grabbing the officer by the scruff and rides back to safety. Now that officer I believe was a Captian Mostyn, who became good friends with my grandfather. now when my father was born in 1921, my grandfather named him Frank after him, and gave him a middle name, MOSTYN, after his dear friend Capt Mostyn, and I too Cary his name. My grandfather was awarded the military medal for his actions. what I would love to know unixman is it your, grandfather he saved?? kind regards Carl Mostyn Hydes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark1959 Posted 28 November , 2017 Share Posted 28 November , 2017 Mostyn was certainly a Captain at the right time for your grandfather’s MM action. Having difficulty marrying up the units as being the same. However just looking at Medal index cards there are only about a dozen officers with the surname Mostyn. Of these only one was an artillery man - the subject of this thread. So, if all the above is factual, chances must be high that this is the Mostyn in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Symon Posted 18 March , 2018 Share Posted 18 March , 2018 On 11/26/2017 at 22:45, Hydes said: Hi hope you can help me to, my Grandfather served in the Great War RFA, now at some point he saved his commanding officer, who found himself in trouble stuck out in no mans land, and about to be cut down, this is where my grandfather steps in, he jumped on is horse and rode out, grabbing the officer by the scruff and rides back to safety. Now that officer I believe was a Captian Mostyn, who became good friends with my grandfather. now when my father was born in 1921, my grandfather named him Frank after him, and gave him a middle name, MOSTYN, after his dear friend Capt Mostyn, and I too Cary his name. My grandfather was awarded the military medal for his actions. what I would love to know unixman is it your, grandfather he saved?? kind regards Carl Mostyn Hydes Hi Carl I am the brother of Unixman, and a grandson of Captain Joseph Cecil Mary Mostyn MC If it helps you , here are some basic details of my grandfather's service. I presume your Grandfather was F Hydes, driver, L/23343, Royal Field artillery. Awarded Military Medal, Gazetted 10.11.1916 Gazette 29819 page 10924 JCM Mostyn 15.08.14 posted to 12 Brigade 27.08.14 posted to 2 Brigade 08.09.14 to BEF France 01.05.15 appointed to I Battery Royal Horse Artillery 03.08.15 posted to 115 Battery Royal Field Artillery 11.08.15 appointed temporary Captain 15.03.16 posted to A/72 Royal Field Artillery 08,08.16 promoted Captain Assuming that your Grandfather got his MM for his actions early in 1916 here are the locations of my Grandfather January 1916 Fosse 7, near Mazingarbe, Loos February 1916 115 Battery was moved forward to shoot at Harrison's Crater, shooting at 800 yards range on open sights. returned to Fosse 7 March 1916 Fosse 7. 16.03.16 joined A Battery 72 Brigade RFA at Corons de Rutoire, Vermelles, Loos April 1916 Training near Flechin. 28.04.16 moved back into the line at Vermelles May, June, early July 1916 Vermelles Late July 1916 Marched to the Somme 04.08.16 Entered the Somme battlefield 700 yards South west of Bazentin-le-Grand, Marlboro(ugh) Wood being on the right of A Battery The following is taken from A Short History of the 72nd Brigade R.F.A., 1914-1919, by Brig-General J.W.Stirling CB, CMG and Lt Colonel F.W.Richey DSO RGA to fill in details of 72 Brigade before and after my Grandfather was with them. 1916 The XV Division which had taken over the Hohenzollern section of the IV Corps Area, was relieved by the 47th Division on the 16th December and on the 4th January 1916 the 2nd dismounted Cavalry Division took over the section, the 72nd Brigade being relieved by the 7th Royal Horse Artillery Brigade on the 7th moved to billets at Cauchy-a-la-Tour for 10 days, returning on the 15th January to relieve the 1st Division Batteries in the Hullock section, the Infantry of the Division coming into the line at the same time. A. and B. Batteries were on the south and north of Corons du Rutoire respectively; C and dD west of the railway embankment and south of Fosse No. 4. The Brigade Headquarters were in Marsdens Keep a draughty house on the Philosophe – Vermelles Road, which had been prepared for defence by the removal of all windows, sandbags with loopholes being in their place. Outside was an ominous notice “It is dangerous to halt here”, but marvellous to relate in the various bombardments which were experienced during the stay there as Headquarters, the house was never actually hit. On 15th March, the 1st Corps commanded by Sir Hugh Gough took over (from) the IV Corps – Sir Hugh being succeeded by Lt Genl Kavanagh towards the end of March. On the 25th March the XV Division was relieved by the XVI Division to which Division the 72nd Brigade was attached until the 16th April, when it joined its Division in G.H.Q. Reserve being billeted at Bellery. On the 20th April the Brigade enjoyed four days training near Fletchin a very pleasant billet, but time available was all too short for Batteries which had been almost incessantly in the line for eight months. General E.W. Alexander VC, was appointed to command of XV Corps Artillery on the 21st April, and was succeeded in the Divisional Artillery by Brig Genl E.B. Macnaghten, CMG, DSO,. Captain Boyce, DSO, had previously succeeded Major Sherbrook, DSO, as Brigade Major. On the 29th April the Brigade relieved part of XII Divisional Artillery in the old position at Vermelles. During May 1916 the D.A.C. was reorganized and absorbed our old B.A.C. as No 3 Section under Captain Reed, but the Brigade regained them again on becoming Army Field Brigade in February 1917. During this month Major Lord Wynford, Commanding D Battery was promoted to the command of a Brigade in the 45th Division and Captain Francis Graham, DSO, MC, took his place. He was a very smart and promising officer, one of the youngest Battery Commanders in the Regiment, but unfortunately his career was prematurely ended, for he was killed in action in March 1918. During June 1916 the composition of the Brigade was altered from four 18 pounder Batteries to three 18 ponder Batteries and one 4.5 Howitzer Battery, three of the Batteries of the 73rd Howitzer Brigade were distributed to 70, 71 and 72 Brigade, D/73 commanded by Major Ditmas, Lieut Pearce, Tancock, Jolly and Hackett, being the other officers, came to the 72nd in exchange for or D Battery. We were very sorry to part company with the youngest child of the Brigade which had established a fine reputation for smartness and efficiency. The end of June and the beginning of July was marked as a time of special activity in sympathy with the commencement of the great Somme offensive in which eventually the XV Division was take an important part. On the 24th July the Brigade pulled out of the line and marched to Bergnineuse, continuing on the 26th to Fllievres, 27th to Mezevolles, 28th to Hem, 31st to Bourdon, August 2nd to Behencourt en route to the Somme Area, a pleasant march in glorious weather. On the 4th August the 72nd Brigade entered into the Somme Battle, and relieved the 88th Brigade 19th Division in position about 700 yards SW of Bezantin-le-Grand, Marlborough Wood being on the right rear of A and B Batteries, D being about 150 yards rear of A and B., C Battery on the north of Mametz Wood in emplacements in the Contalmaison-Bezantin Road, Brigade Headquarters in a trench running from the right of A and B Battery’s position to Marlborough Wood. The whole neighbourhood was very closely packed with Artillery there being 3 tiers of guns on the slope of the hill which rises from Caterpillar Valley to the ridge overlooking Bezantin-le-Grand, consequently everyone was exposed to hostile concentrations of fire and ammunition supply passing along the road from Mametz to the Caterpillar Valley was a precarious operation owing both to the enemy’s shells and the bad state of the road, many G.S. wagons broke down, and an insistent demand from the Divisional transport authorities as to why the Gunners expended so many wagons, was successfully countered and silenced by a request to the D.A. and Q.M.G. to come and see. On the 5th, 7th and 9th August, the Batteries were heavily shelled, and on the 10th C Battery experienced a destructive enemy shoot, and was moved in consequence to a position on the right of D Battery on the 14th. Brigade Headquarters were withdrawn from the trench near Marlborough Wood on the 10th to a position half a mile N. Of Mametz, as it was found impossible to maintain telephone communications with Divisional Headquarters across Caterpillar Valley. The Chief objective at this time was the far-famed High Wood together with the Switch and intermediate trenches which connected it with the defences of Martinpuich Village – the Brigade supported attacks on six different occasions before it was finally taken on the 15th September. On the 25th August the 15th Divisional Infantry which had been withdrawn on the 12th August relieved the 1st Division in the line. 31st August this Division carried out a highly successful minor operation which by the intermediate trench was captured together with 4 officers, 129 N.C.O’s and men. On the 3rd, 8th and 9th September the 1st Division again attacked High Wood, but the enemy managed to retain possession of the Northern portion. During this period from the 4th August to the 9th September the Batteries had had a very trying time, constant shelling and little rest. On the 14th August during a very hostile area shoot, Captain Saville attached to A Battery was killed, and on the 1st September, B Battery had three guns knocked out. On the 2nd September B/70 commanded by Major Daubeny relieved A Battery which was withdrawn to refit. At the same time Capt. Fairgrieve succeeded Major Ditmas who was invalided, in command of D Battery. On the 11th September there was a redistribution of the artillery on the Front with a view to enable the XV Divisional Artillery to cover its own Division which had taken over the section in front of Martinpuich and the 72nd Brigade exchanged positions with 251 Brigade and moved into the Sausage Valley near La Boiselle but Brig-Gen Macnaghten did not consider that the position was one from which sufficient support could be given to the Infantry attacking Martinpuich and the Brigade moved again on the 12th to positions in the Valley W of Mametz Wood, Headquarters being in Bottom Wood. On the 15th September the Vth and IV Armies attacked on a Front which extended from Courcellettes to Longueval, the Canadians on the left forced Coucellettes, the XV Division in the centre went for Martinpuich, the 47th Division on the right carried High Wood, the New Zealand Division and Guards operating on their right. The operation was a great success and was notable as being the first occasion on which Tanks were employed, the weather was favourable and the ground hard, so that these novel weapons of war had every advantage and made a most successful debut. Three or four were eventually knocked out by hostile fire on our front, and remained as Land Marks during the Autumn and Winter, but not until they had done their job. The XV Division added greatly to their reputation by their successful capture of Martinpuich; a long straggling village strengthened by every device that German ingenuity could conceive. The Divisional Commander, Sir F.W. McCracken, KCB publicly stated that the way in which the Camerons cleared the village was one of the finest pieces of Infantry work he had ever witnessed. The official record stated the XV Division captured Martinpuich and 3 lines of trenches taking 650 prisoners, 13 machine guns, 3 heavy howitzers, 3 77mm guns and 1 mortar, also a large quantity of R.E. materials – casualties about 1,800. On the evening of the same day B and C Batteries advanced to positions near Contalmaison Villa so as to render efficient support to the Infantry holding our new line, D Battery moved on the night of the 16th to a position in the Valley some 300 yards on the right of B and A which was attached to the 70th Brigade, came into action on the N.E. of B and C. On the 20th September the Brigade was withdrawn to rest at St. Gratien being joined on the 4th October by A/72. On the 8th October the Brigade returned into the line relieving the 107th Brigade. The HQ were in Little Wood, NW of Mametz Wood. The 3 18-pounder Batteries had positions between High Wood and Martinpuich, the Howitzer D Battery being in the latter village where deep tunnelled Dug-outs were available for the men. The 18-pounder positions were very uncomfortable owing to the sodden conditions of the ground and the mud was appalling. Fortunately some derelict light railway material was available and tramways were improvised for the supply of ammunition which was brought up pack transport from Bezantin. The difficulties which had to be contended with are illustrated by the experience of A Battery in replacing an unserviceable gun. The piece was brought by a gun team along the track leading from Bezantin to High Wood until it stuck immovable in a hole, and then by great efforts was manhandled on to the side to enable other traffic to pass. By that time it was too late to move it further and it took the whole of the following day to cover the last quarter mile to the battery position. The wagon lines were situated between Contalmaison and Fricourt in simply a sea of mud, the ground having been cut up with shell holes collected all the water and so heavy was the approach to the horse lines that the horses were exhausted before they got onto the main road. Without adequate shelter for either men or horses the hardship of the conditions in which they lived told heavily on man and beast. Fortunately the tour of duty was a short one and on the 9th November the 3 18-pounder Batteries marched to St. Gratien moving on the 13th to Pierregot having been relieved by the 71st Brigade. D Battery with the Howitzers could not however be spared from the line, but they had some compensation in that they were better accommodated in Martinpuich and had better lines of communication in a light railway and good duckboard track. During the month in the line the Brigade supported an attack by the XV Division on the 12th October on the Butte of Warlicourt and again on the 5th November an attack by the 50th Division with the same objective, neither however gave any permanent gain of ground. On the 126th November 522 Howitzer Battery under Captain Graham arrived from England. It was eventually split up to complete to six pieces the other Howitzer Batteries of the Division, fitting in with the reorganisation of the 18-pounder batteries into six-gun units which took place on the 1st December 1916. To accomplish this C/72 was broken up, giving one section to A/72 and one to B/72 which was commanded respectively by Russell and Gardner with the rank of Major. Captain Mostyn remained in A as second in command and Lieut. Butcher from Brigade Headquarters was appointed Captain of B Battery, his place being taken by Lieut. Lucas who took over the duties of Signalling and Orderly Officer to the Brigade. On the 21st November the Brigade relieved the 70th Brigade in action near Martinpuich, Headquarters first at Contalmaison Villa later at its old location in Little Wood. The Batteries had good gun pits in the valley, SW of Martinpuich and a light railway ran past their right flank greatly facilitated transport at first. The 3 Batteries were placed each 100 yards in front of the others but on reorganisation the centre position was given up, two near emplacements being made at the forward position for A and in the rearwards for B. The weather was still very wet and constant work was required to prevent the pits from being flooded, but the emplacements of B were especially well constructed and in the following summer when revisited by the C.O. were found intact and fit for reoccupation. On December 23rd, H.Q.s A/72 and B/72 were relieved by the 71st Brigade and went to rest Billets at Pierregot to enjoy the first Xmas in France out of the line, returning on the 6th January to relieve the 70th Brigade in the section Bezantin-le-Grand. D Battery which had been withdrawn about 30th December after a long turn of duty remained at rest. 1917 On the 17th January the Brigade was concentrated at Pierregot to reorganize on being formed into an Army Brigade constituted as follows:- A Battery 6 18-pounders Major A.T.G. Gardner MC [15 Div] B Battery 6 18-pounders Major C.G. Russell, MC [15 Div] C Battery 6 18-pounders Major L.A. Common, DSO [50 Div] D Battery 6 4.5 Howitzers Major Fairgrieve, MC [15 Div] Brigade Ammunition Column, Captain R.C. Reed [15 Div] The Brigade Staff was unaltered except in regards of the M.O. Captain Hackney having been relieved by Captain Packer who had been invalided, the new units being C Battery formerly 252 Brigade and the B.A.C. a section from the D.A.C which had formerly been 72nd Brigade A.C under its old C.O Captain Reed. On the 20th the Brigade under its new designation went back into the line on its old front being attached to the XV Division. It was not to be long as on the 5th February the XVB Division was withdrawn to proceed to the Arras Front and the 72nd Army Brigade to be attached to the 50th Division on the new front south of the Somme taken over from the French; after a halt at Albert, the Brigade marched via Corbie to Hamelet on the 6th February 1917. It was a wrench to part company with the XV Division, with which the Brigade had been so long associated and to say goodbye to our old comrades of the XV Divisional Artillery. It was natural to feel at this time that the Brigade was starting into the unknown as an Army Brigade, but the result has proved that in spite of misgivings and difficulties, it was entering on a career which would add fresh laurels to its record of duties well and gallantly done. We had been just six months on the Somme front and on all hands it was admitted that the experience of its fighting and mud was as trying as could be found anywhere, but it brought out the fine soldierlike characteristics of all ranks, and welded it anew into a thoroughly efficient fighting unit. It is opportune here to mention some whose gallantry had been specially noticed, but in doing so it is fully recognised that there were many others whose deeds if unrecorded were equally deserving. On the night of the 10th August C/72 had a very trying experience. The Battery was occupying a position on the northern edge of Mametz Wood when the enemy opened a concentrated fire of 5.9 and 4.2. The wagons had just arrived with ammunition and one wagon was knocked out. Captain Russell and the other officers acted with perfect coolness and managed to retire the wagons without further damage, but the position was so knocked about, evidently marked down by the enemy, that the Battery was moved to another. For his conduct on this occasion Capt. Russell, MC, was mention in Despatches on 1st January, 1917. On the 1st September B/72 was heavily bombarded with 5.9 and 4.2 shells in salvoes of four rounds; three guns were blown up, one gunner was killed and several injured; the damage was not heavier was in great measure due to Captain Garner’s energy in preparing dug-outs and withdrawing his men under cover at the critical moment; for his gallantry and coolness on this as well as other occasions Capt. Russell MC, was mentioned in Despatches on 1st January 1917. D Battery which occupied a position west of Martinpuich, came in for a lot of hostile shelling. The Hun used frequently to walk [wake?] up the village with salvoes of 5.9 and on the 12th October, concentrated on the Battery position. One emplacement was blown up and the Howitzer knocked out, the pit being set on fire. Major Fairgrieve rushed out from his deep dug-out and assisted to remove the two men who had been killed, and the three who were wounded, and then set himself to remove the ammunition from the burning gun-pit, incurring the greatest risk from both shell fire and explosion. For his gallantry and contempt of danger he was given an immediate award of an MC. In addition to the honours referred to above, Capt. Mostyn was awarded an MC, Sergt. Raymond a DCM and the following were mentioned in the same dispatch:- Capt. Butcher, Lieuts Barron, Butterfield and Tancock. While attached to the 50th Division, the Brigade formed part of the 3rd Corps, Genl. Sir W. Pulteney, KCB, which had side-stepped from the north to the south of the Somme and was much indebted to the Corps Artillery Commander, Gen. Tancred, and his Staff Captain. Capt. Gibson, for their care and interest which enabled many difficulties incidental to their new status to be overcome. On the 13th February, A, B and D Batteries moved forward to Proyart being attached to the 250 and 251 Brigades, in position east of Estree. C/72 remained at rest until the 22nd, when it was attached to the 48th Division at Cappy. The Headquarters moved to Vaire on the 19th. An attack of the Peronne Defences was contemplated at this time, but was abandoned and shortly after the great German retreat to the Hindenburg Line commenced. The 72nd Brigade was not however, to take part in the pursuit, as it was reserved for other work, and on 17th March, it was withdrawn to its wagon lines, marching to Hamelet, to Blanzy Trouville on the 19th, thence by Talmas, Accoche, Boulers, Anuin, Ruitz, reaching Wagon Lines at Villers-au-Bois on the 29th. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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