9th Battalion Loyal North Lancs war diary April/May 1916

[paul@bolton]

Any pals out there have access to the 9th Battn war diary for this period?

 

I have posted this extract from Lewis Shepherd's personal diary under 'Soldiers' but thought I might get a response if I posted here also.

I would like to compare what he says with the battalion war diary for the same period. Any help would be greatly appreciated by me - and his great niece

 

This is an extract from Lewis Shepherd's Diary - entry April 27th 1916 to May 16th 1916 - Trenches at Vimy - 20 days.

 

'C' Company, 9th Battalion, Loyal North Lancashire Regiment

 

My experience on Vimy Ridge at Neuville St Vaast.

 

Before I go on about these exciting times on Vimy Ridge, I thought I had seen some heavy bombardments, I changed my opinion after these 20 days. It was like this, out Batt went to the trenches in real good earnest, every man fit and well when we took up our position which was in reservefor the first 6 days, on the crest of the hill, and there was a big valley and another large hill, the first night we were in, they blew a mine on our right and this was the beginning of a terrible bombardment. The Germans simply stormed the valley with shells to keep reinforcements from coming up, as they were always in readiness. The large shells they sent over and the noise they made was as no-one can imagine, it was a reaal treat to see the valley, lit up with the bursting shells and our men bombing, like mad men, this was on the first night. On the following morning, I saw a German aeroplane brought down, by an Anti-Aircraft gun. I have seen many brought down from thousands of feet high. Now for many days after this, mines got very common, and every night, one or more went up, and these bombardments were kept up, for hours and many of our lads got put out of action. It grew worse every day, almost impossible to keep up with the work, our lads never gave way, not to these mines or bombing raids, they played a great part, and against great odds. When I say great odds, I mean it for the simple reason, that the Germans were doing everything inthe power to take our first line, alday along, they stormed us with shells and then at night they blew a mine up, and still kept it up, now sleep was out of the question here, and to get the lads food to the firing, was a big difficulty, for in many parts they had nearly levelled the trench to the ground by trench mortars and we had to crawl on our hands and knees, to prevent them from seeing us, passing up and down. Well, after twelve days of this work, I went in the first line trench, I had charge of a Machine Gun and they placed me in a trench that was close to one of the craters, this was a very trying time, and some of the men were nervous, well I did all in my power to help them, and take their minds of this terrible sensation, the first night up in the trench, they blew another mine, one straight in front of us, our lads dashed up, those who were bombers, and our men and Germans fought like tigers, our men got one half, and Germans the other, it was our Company alone who did the splendid work, we suffered heavily. Now in the early morning, I was put in the crater, in the lip, and I was getting rather nervous, seeing many dead and others, which I cannot mention, now while here a fairly good name did I make for myself, I was in for 6 days, and once when the Germans, made an attack we beat them of, only about 8 of us, I played my part well, and then early one morning, they blew a gallery up, a few yds from us, and it fairly put us in a way, these are gallerys, in tunnelling work. Now I must skip a little as its no use going fully into things"

 

I find myself really moved reading this diary. An ordinary man in extraordinary circumstances and so matter of fact.

"I was put in the crater, in the lip, and I was getting rather nervous" Unbelievable!

 

If this is of interest, I can continue. The next section of his diary relates to what he refers to as "the great fight" on the night of 15th May 1916

 

Regards to all

 

Paul

[brianmorris547]

Paul

The WD of 74 Infantry Brigade (WO 95/2245/1) has no maps but does have a good account of the operations on Vimy Ridge. The June WD names 4 o/rs of 9 LNL who were awarded the MM for bravery during the fighting at Vimy: Sgt Gilbertson, Cpl Marshall, Ptes Goodram and Wolfendale. 

The WD of 9 LNL (WO 95/ 2246/1) also has no maps but gives the position on moving into the line on 27/04/1916 as Q 90 and Q 93 map ref S.15. a & c  Givenchy 1/10,000.  It reports on the enemy exploding a mine on 09/05/1916 opposite Q90 and an immediate counter attack by 9 LNL which was successful. It goes on to report that on 15/05/1916 we exploded 4 mines and a camouflet opposite Q90.

The 1/10,000 Givenchy map is on the NLS system 36B SE 4 and 36C SW 3 but the trenches are not named. 

There are reports of this fighting in the Bolton Evening News 1916 which you can read at the Library.

Brian

Edited 28 April , 2017 by brianmorris547
typo

[Colin W Taylor]

Paul,

 

A very interesting account; many thanks for sharing.

 

I can add little beyond the fact that there is almost no mention of this period in the LNL Regt History by Wylly; the 9th Bn gets a chapter but no detail except for officer casualties.

 

Kind regards

 

Colin

[paul@bolton]

Thank you for your interest and for the information provided. Chris (CLK) has kindly provided me with copies of the battalion war diary and  74 brigade diary for the relevant period. I have not yet managed to find a map which identifies the Q sector trenches but Chris has also linked me to the same map as identified by Brian on the NLS website http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=50.3848&lon=2.7610&layers=101464726&b=1.

 

Interestingly, someone has annotated this map in pencil with four new craters which MAY refer to those in Sgt Shepherd's personal diary for the 15th of May 1916 which I repeat in full for your interest as follows:

 

"The Great Fight.

 

It was on the night of May 15th 1916 that we made a great name, after all these raids and mines and bombardments etc, by the Germans, our men were sick at heart, for we had suffered, fairly heavy, all things were arranged, hundreds of guns behind us, and at 8-30 p.m. we sent off five mines, up on the Germans. Over our men went, with the Lancashire Fusiliers, Engeniers (sic), South Wales Borderers, for trenches work, they were for, I had my gun on the crater, till the following morning, we simply stormed them, took all five craters in an hour, shells were wizzing through the air in hundreds, Machine Gun, ripping all night long, myself I fired over a thousand rounds, what sights I could see, men crying for mercy, one poor German had his legs fast, at the bottom of the crater, he cried for 2 or 3 hours amidst the bombing that was going on and the Machine Gun fire, the earth fairly trembled, and it was a real good day, for our men, and what better spirit could anyone be in, than our lads, for great patience by our Chaplain, who was carrying, and bandaging wounded, it was really marvellous, and he told the boys, such touching words, and every encouragement possible, he was in the open, admist (sic) all the horrors of war, a true Briton he was, and a splendid man, who had no fear, well at 3-30 a.m. in the morning, we had an armists (sic) , or peace, for two hours, to give the HUn time to carry out, their wounded and dead I cannot go to (sic0 far about the fight, but it is a brief insight as to what occured, on this night alone, about 9' O clock we left our position, and just before I left, a piece of srapnel (sic) caught me in the face, a very small piece, but I was no worse of (sic) for this, as I had made a great name for myself on this very night and in my 20 days on Vimy Ridge, the boys didn't half congratulate me, on my work, I was done to the world, for no sleep for days, and nothing to eat, no dug outs in the firing line, we got releived in the Afternoon by the Londoners, and it was on Vimy Ridge that we got our splendid name, of the gallant Lancashire Lads, by our Commander-in-Chief, Sir, Douglas Haig, I was specially recommended for my work, by our Colonel.

 

Our Battallion (sic) had many casualties, in the 20 days, Officers and men, and we got a rest after this dreadful time"

 

Paul

 

[tom bowler]

Camblain le Abbe was the divisional rest area and where they were prior to and after coming out of the trenches according to the 9th LNL war diary. I wasn't aware that the 9th LNL, which included my paternal grandfather,  fought at Vimy ridge.

[neddyb]

Hi there

First time I've posted on this forum!

I'm lucky enough to have the Roll Book for B Company 9L N Lancs from August 1914 to July 1916 which has the details of 250+ soldiers, mainly from my home town of Bolton. Sgt Shepherd isn't in it sadly. I've been researching the battalion for some time and have recently finished transcribing their war diary and incorporating the Soldiers Died into it if you'd like a copy. I've also got the 13 Cheshires, 11th Lancs Fusiliers and 2 RIR from 74th Bde and anything 25th Division I could get hold of and would be happy to help with anything you need.

The battalion is poorly served by personal diaries - none I've found so far! - so I'd be grateful to have a look at Sgt Shepherds sometime if possible???

I'm in France in July again at La Boiselle where B company lost half it's strength in the battalion's attack on the 7th. It was a cabbage field last year!

 

[paul@bolton]

On 26/06/2017 at 22:55, neddyb said:

Hi there

First time I've posted on this forum!

I'm lucky enough to have the Roll Book for B Company 9L N Lancs from August 1914 to July 1916 which has the details of 250+ soldiers, mainly from my home town of Bolton. Sgt Shepherd isn't in it sadly. I've been researching the battalion for some time and have recently finished transcribing their war diary and incorporating the Soldiers Died into it if you'd like a copy. I've also got the 13 Cheshires, 11th Lancs Fusiliers and 2 RIR from 74th Bde and anything 25th Division I could get hold of and would be happy to help with anything you need.

The battalion is poorly served by personal diaries - none I've found so far! - so I'd be grateful to have a look at Sgt Shepherds sometime if possible???

I'm in France in July again at La Boiselle where B company lost half it's strength in the battalion's attack on the 7th. It was a cabbage field last year!

 

 Hi Neddyb. I have pm'd you. 

 

Paul

[brianmorris547]

Paul, Neddyb

Some time ago I made a list of all the LNL photos in the Bolton Journal and Guardian and the Bolton Chronicle. The ones of 9 LNL are:

BJG

28/05/1915    12 Bolton men of D Co 9 LNL, named.

06/08/1915    Scouts of 9 LNL, named.

29/10/1915    Signallers of 9 LNL, mostly Bolton men.

BC

01/04/1916    Bolton boys of 9 LNL, named and Scouts of 9 LNL, named.

 

[neddyb]

Hi Brian

Apologies but I've only just seen this response - still finding my way round - so please accept my belated thanks for that information!

 

Cheeres

 

Neddy B

[EvanEvansLancs]

Hi there - I've just been reading the above post of 20 June 2017 regarding the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment. My grandfather Evan Evans (number 7658) was with the 11th battalion of the Lancashire Fusiliers and was seriously injured at Vimy Ridge in 1916. There is no mention of him in the 11th battalion of the Lancashire Fusiliers war diary, but someone on the greatwarforum site has advised he may have joined the Loyal North Lancs as a relief during this time, because that was often done by soldiers of the 11th. You mention you have a list of names and I would be very grateful if you could check please to see if my grandfather is mentioned.  Thanks very much  

[Cecil Seaskull]

Hi, I know I'm like years late but I'm researching a soldier in the Loyal North Lancashire 9th Battalion. Wondering if he's in that company roll? He's from Bolton and he died on 7/7/2016 action on that field. Private William Matthews.  I don't know how to respond or message Neddy B, but I'd love to have that.  Currently writing a novel about it.  Thank you for any help! 

[Michelle Young]

Welcome to the forum. @neddyb hasn’t visited the forum for a couple of years. My tag might alert them to your post. 

[Cecil Seaskull]

thank you! much appreciated!  Would be so helpful to know what company my guy was in. Seems like B Company is a very likely candidate. Maybe @neddyb sent an image of that roll to someone here? If so, please let me know! I would love to see it!  

 

Cheers! 

[brianmorris547]

13 hours ago, Cecil Seaskull said:

Hi, I know I'm like years late but I'm researching a soldier in the Loyal North Lancashire 9th Battalion. Wondering if he's in that company roll? He's from Bolton and he died on 7/7/2016 action on that field. Private William Matthews.  I don't know how to respond or message Neddy B, but I'd love to have that.  Currently writing a novel about it.  Thank you for any help! 

Cecil

16581 William Matthews has a Service Record in WO 363. He enlisted on 17/09/1914. His address was 773 Chorley Old Rd. He was k in a on the Somme. I am in Bolton Library this morning and will see If I can find anything.

Brian

[brianmorris547]

Cecil

From the Bolton Journal 16/08/1916. Photo and brief biography. Courtesy Bolton Library History Centre.

I looked at those pictures that were in the BJ 1915 and name names. Neither mention William but I will post them on here out of interest. The other two which do not name names are not clear and it would be difficult to identify anyone on them.

The Bolton papers reported that 80% of 9 LNL and 75% of 10 LNL were recruited in Bolton. In 1915 with the increase in the TF most recruits named in the papers went to Bolton's TF Unit, 5 LNL.

Brian

[Cecil Seaskull]

Yes!  Brian! I believe maybe you helped me when I was in Bolton at the library in February of 2020 (if one can believe that such a date of out and about existed!) I am the American woman who is writing a novel.  I was there this past May as well.

I have this info and his beautiful pic!  I was just wondering if he might be on that Roll Call that @neddyb mentioned. It'd be so great to know what company he was in.  B seems to line up from what Neddy said. Do you happen to have that roll call with names?

It's true that there is not much on the LN Lancs 9th. I am scouring though, and would be glad for any little extra tidbits.

Thank you times infinity! And I hope to make it to Bolton again by the end of the year. 

Cheers!  Cecil 

[brianmorris547]

Cecil

I do not have the Roll in question. Have you tried the Lancashire Infantry Museum which is at Fulwood Barracks, Preston. I have not been there for a good few years. 

These are the two photographs from the Bolton Journal.

28/05/1915 D Company and 06/08/1916 Scouts. Courtesy Bolton Library History Centre.

Brian

[brianmorris547]

I note that the Bolton Journal has become available on the British Newspaper Library via FMP. Not 1915 though so I can not see if there are clearer pictures of the above. 1916 onwards is available.

This is from the BJ 26/05/1916. Courtesy BNL via FMP.

14928 Cpl James Bolton who was k in a on 15/05/1916 serving with 9 LNL at Vimy Ridge.

Brian

 

[brianmorris547]

On 27/04/2017 at 11:20, paul@bolton said:

Thank you for your interest and for the information provided. Chris (CLK) has kindly provided me with copies of the battalion war diary and  74 brigade diary for the relevant period. I have not yet managed to find a map which identifies the Q sector trenches but Chris has also linked me to the same map as identified by Brian on the NLS website http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=50.3848&lon=2.7610&layers=101464726&b=1.

Paul

It took me a while to find a map showing Q Sector.

46 Div were ordered to relieve the French in the Sector in March 1916 and were in turn relieved by 25 Div on 13/04/1916. These two maps are from the WD of 46 Div HQ GS. They show O, P and Q Sectors. Note Vincent St in S 15 c and White Hart St in S 15 d.

TNA/Ancestry WO 95/2663.

Later I will post some sketches showing the locations of the craters in Q Sector caused by the explosions on 15/05/1916, which can be compared with the NLS map above.

Brian

 

 

[brianmorris547]

The 46 Div papers record that 138 Infantry Brigade were in Q Sector and handed over to 74 Infantry Brigade on 22/04/1916. This map is from the April 1916 WD of 138 IB.

There are some French Trench Maps in the April 1916 WD of 138 IB that might interest @Howard and @WhiteStarLine

TNA/Ancestry WO 95/2688.

Then there are operational orders and sketches in the WD of 25 Div HQ GS.

TNA/AncestryWO 95/2222/1.

The WD of 105 FC RE (25 Div) records that the operation on 15/05/1916 was a success and established a Forward Observation 250 yards long.

Brian

Edited 7 February by brianmorris547
typo

[Howard]

Note the differences in trench names between Brian's 1:5,000 sketch above and a typical trench map of the area like m_019404. International Avenue is the and serves as a reference. The planimetry of the sketch is very approximate.

Howard

 

Name: Vimy Ridge Sheet
Sheet: 36B SE & 36C SW 3 & 51C NE & 51B NW [parts of]
Scale: 1:10,000
Upright format
Id: m_019404

[KIRKY]

My Gt Uncle was killed 13th May with 13th Cheshires 74th Brigade.

I always thought he went up Central Ave and attached a mine at the end of this trench?

tony

 

[neddyb]

On 02/02/2024 at 17:12, Cecil Seaskull said:

Yes!  Brian! I believe maybe you helped me when I was in Bolton at the library in February of 2020 (if one can believe that such a date of out and about existed!) I am the American woman who is writing a novel.  I was there this past May as well.

I have this info and his beautiful pic!  I was just wondering if he might be on that Roll Call that @neddyb mentioned. It'd be so great to know what company he was in.  B seems to line up from what Neddy said. Do you happen to have that roll call with names?

It's true that there is not much on the LN Lancs 9th. I am scouring though, and would be glad for any little extra tidbits.

Thank you times infinity! And I hope to make it to Bolton again by the end of the year. 

Cheers!  Cecil 

Hi there,

Yes he is indeed in B company. His house is just up the road from my parents who are 572.

I've identified 950+ of the 998 men who went overseas with the battalion in September 1915, have transcribed the battalion war diary and many of the relevant 25th division diaries. There isn't a lot else to do with 9th battalion out there but if you are in the U.K.later in the year, it would be great to meet up and I could share what I have.

Do get in touch

 

 

Best

 

Roger

[brianmorris547]

58 minutes ago, neddyb said:

Hi there,

Yes he is indeed in B company. His house is just up the road from my parents who are 572.

 

Roger

It is better to remove your e mail address from the post and send it on a PM.

I go past 773 Chorley Old Rd, Doffcocker, where William Marshall lived, on my way into Bolton. It is a end of terrace stone cottage that was there in 1914. This 1909 map from the NLS system shows it. In between the words Chorley and Old (on Chorley Old Road) at Doffcocker you can see a block on the right (going into town) set back at an angle. Heaton's Mill Lostock mentioned on his biography I think is the mill that was at Lostock Junction.

Brian

Courtesy NLS

https://maps.nls.uk/view/101102864

Edited 10 February by brianmorris547

[Cecil Seaskull]

1 hour ago, neddyb said:

Hi there,

Yes he is indeed in B company. His house is just up the road from my parents who are 572.

I've identified 950+ of the 998 men who went overseas with the battalion in September 1915, have transcribed the battalion war diary and many of the relevant 25th division diaries. There isn't a lot else to do with 9th battalion out there but if you are in the U.K.later in the year, it would be great to meet up and I could share what I have.

Do get in touch

 

 

Best

 

Roger

Roger! aka @neddyb This is so awesome to know. I would love to be in touch. I'm private messaged you my email if you could either give me yours or email me, that'd be swell.  I'm due to be in the UK in late May and again in November. 

And thank you @brianmorris547 I'll surely swing by the Bolton Archives when I do. 

Kind thanks to all.