Norfolk Regiment's Uniform in 1908

[Kitty55]

Hi

I am trying to find out exactly how the normal soldier's uniform changed when the army system did in 1908. I've found a photograph (of two Norfolk Soldiers) in the papers of that date but it's so bad that I can't distinguish the differences - so please can anyone tell me.

 

Thanks and take care, Kitty

 

[FROGSMILE]

8 hours ago, Kitty55 said:

Hi

I am trying to find out exactly how the normal soldier's uniform changed when the army system did in 1908. I've found a photograph (of two Norfolk Soldiers) in the papers of that date but it's so bad that I can't distinguish the differences - so please can anyone tell me.

 

Thanks and take care, Kitty

 

 

Kitty you will need to post the pictures themselves.  Uniforms changed in subtle ways according to the arm of service so giving you a simple answer is not feasible.

[Kitty55]

15 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

 

Kitty you will need to post the pictures themselves.  Uniforms changed in subtle ways according to the arm of service so giving you a simple answer is not feasible.

 

Well you asked for them - they are really bad - I've tried photographing them and scanning them with a hand scanner as they are in very large yearly volumes of the Dereham and Fakenham Times.

The caption under it reads as follows:- "New Uniform of the Territorials - Our photo shows the old and new uniforms of the Territorials, the former on the left and the latter on the right. Though it may be thought that the new uniform is not so smart as the old, it is undoubtedly more serviceable - the chief consideration."

 

Personally I love the more serviceable part.

 

So here's a photographed copy from DFT 20th March 1909 done with my Nikon 7000 (1909 hence the rotten paper - wood pulp I believe for this year's edition)

 

 

and the scanned one - I think it's a little better - it's the best I can manage even with Photoshop CS3. Hopefully you can see that they have Norfolk Badges on their caps.

 

 

 

Hope this will help, the reason I wanted to know was that I've covered the New Territorials in my first book's chapter which covers the years from the 2nd Boer War up to the Great War and in 1908 everything was re-organised and I wanted to show people how this affected the uniform as well as the regimental set ups - or one might say the regimental upsets - well they certainly did upset several folk in Dereham.

 

Thanks and take care, Kitty

[FROGSMILE]

It's very straightforward now that I can see Kitty.  The men are both Norfolk Regiment from a newly formed, Territorial Force (TF) battalion, of part-time citizen soldiers who trained weekly in local town and village 'drill halls' (many of which still exist albeit in various uses).  

 

The man on the left is a colour sergeant instructor of musketry, one of the regular army soldiers attached to each TF battalion to oversee training.  He is wearing a TF pattern 7-button blue, or scarlet 'patrol' uniform that was used by officers since the 1880s but only gradually issued to soldiers from the mid to late 1890s.  It was a very dark blue, or scarlet serge, and had chest (and later on, lower) pockets.  Buttons were brass and 'general service' (standard) in design, but 'regimental' collar badges were worn (the figure of Britannia for the Norfolks).  These were paid for and belonged to local, County Territorial Associations.  The regular army 'patrol' equivalent belonged to the State and had just 5-buttons.  It has continued to be worn until today.

 

The man on the right is a 'cyclist' (a specialisation at that time) and most TF battalions had a single cyclist company based at one of the drill halls and some complete units were wholly specialised in that way.  He wears the 1902 pattern 'drab' (a dark shade of brownish khaki) service dress (SD) uniform, made of wool serge and fitted with pockets on the chest and in the lower skirt, that was issued following lessons learned in the 2nd Anglo/Boer war of 1899-1902.  It was an extremely modern and serviceable uniform that was worn throughout WW1 and through until the 1960s in some cases (albeit very limited use at the end).  

 

The unit designation was worn on woven cloth patches on the shoulders between 1902 and 1908 by regulars, but from 1908 the reorganised army started wearing gilding metal (a brass alloy) shoulder titles on the shoulder straps.  The TF battalion, only, had also numbers and a letter T to make clear their part time status.  Trousers were worn with blackened leather boots and 'puttees', that looked like a khaki bandage worn in circular wraps between ankle and just below the knee.  They originated in India and were intended to both, give support and protect the lower leg from thorns and sharp stones.  

 

Soldiers were issued with a .303 inch calibre Lee Enfield rifle of two types (either, 'long' or 'short' barrelled, but both with a 10-bullet magazine) which in the case of cyclists was carried on a special clip  on the bicycle frame.  

 

The soldier in drab SD has been 'appointed' as Lance Corporal (one stripe) which was a probationary role usually without pay, but with some privileges, and intended to both, assist with good order and ID a man's suitability for further responsibility.  He is also a qualified marksman and this is shown via the crossed rifles badge on his lower left sleeve.   The bag on his left hip is called a 'haversack' and was used to carry the days ration and any 'necessaries' such as spare socks, tobacco and pipe, etc.  It was a very traditional item for soldiers and would have been immediately recognised by generations going back as far as Waterloo and beyond.

 

I hope that helps.  I will post some coloured illustrations to illuminate some of the detail on Friday.

Edited 27 April , 2017 by FROGSMILE

[Sepoy]

It is quite possible that the Lance Corporal is a member of the 1/6th (Cyclist) Battalion, Norfolk Regiment.
As Territorial Soldiers normally wore a "T" shoulder title, bearing his Battalion number, this could have been confirmed if his shoulder title was visible, but the photo quality is not quite good enough.
This link may help
http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/norfolk-regiment/

 

Sepoy

NB An example of a "T" shoulder title is linked for your interest.

 

[Steven Broomfield]

Releasing my inner pedant, in 1909 he would merely have been with the 6th Battalion, not 1/6th.

 

Just saying.

[Kitty55]

Thanks fellas

I was just wondering what colour the uniforms were (as it's a black and white photo) because they seemed to go through a lot of changes in a few years prior to the Great War and I wanted to ensure my facts were right.

I'd searched the internet but that had only confused me even more.

Dereham of course had the 5th Norfolks H/Q in town and also several officers of other Norfolk Regiments who either lived within the town or were born in it. However it's a lot less than people think for example the only officers in the Norfolks from town were -

Major Walter John BARTON - 1/5th Norfolks

Captain Walter Jacomb-Hood - 2/6th Norfolk (Cyclist)

Captain C. B. Leathes Prior - 2/6th Norfolk (Cyclist)

Captain John Edward Hill (a very young captain) - 9th Norfolks

1st Lieut. James A. Lewton-Brain - 8th Norfolks

1st Lieut Harold G. Palmer - 9th Norfolks

2nd Lieut. Harold J. Lawrence - 7th Norfolk

2nd Lieut William Sidney Wright - 9th Norfolks

Lt & Q.M William H. Adcock - 5th Norfolks

Lt & Q.M. Samuel Parker - 1/5th Norfolks

We do have 31 more officers but these were in other regiments - one, a town doctor, was a Bvt. Lt. Col. of the Sanitary Service. Mmm. some folk might think that sums Dereham up really.

Personally I think this shows that Dereham was a rural (farm labouring) town because to have only 41 officers in total out of over 2,000 soldiers going to the front is a very small proportion compared with some other towns of 5,000 inhabitants, which our town had prior to the beginning of WWI.

 

Frogsmile

Thanks for your info I will hopefully get it sorted out in my head – I know all about the Territorials and met a few in the 1960’s who fought in the war – when I snuck out to do a school project which my father complained about to the Norfolk Education Authorities - for allowing my history teacher to ask me to research a war topic! It only made me, at the age of 13 and a real rebel, want to know more about the locality and I’m still here researching it 50 years (next year) later. It’s interesting you mention serge – I have an old soldier complaining about it and how he ended-up with dyed skin for a few weeks in my notes from 1969. However I don’t know what colour his skin went I never thought to ask then as I would do now.

 

Sepoy

Thanks for the link but I’ve been there (the LLT) and know about the different sections of various regiments it was just the uniforms I was asking about.   Love the photo of the badge.

 

And yes Mr Broomfield they would have been just the 6th, as the 5th Norfolks were just the 5th and before that they would have been the 3rd VBNR (that's the Territorials) during the Boer War and prior to the 1908 shake up.

 

I'm learning slowly but please remember as a child and until I reached 18 I was never allowed to watch any war film, read, talk about it or anything similar i.e. cowboy films - no violence at all - my parents forbade it and with them being important people in Norfolk Education system, I had no say – but then whoever did everything their parent said do? Also you could say it's strange how I ended up defending the law and seeing quite a lot of it, violence, that is. In fact, the first time I forged their signatures was so I could go with the rest of 4A to see the film the Battle of Britain at the Gaumont in Norwich. Miss Max my history teacher just said that's good enough it'll do get on the bus. It was fantastic!!! Ab Fab especially the soldier landing in the cucumber frame - one film I'll never forget.

 

However, learning makes my life rock (listening to Van Halen as I do this ), so please keep the advice and information coming. I'm willing to learn and will always ask a lot of questions. I guess that’s just me and my ways.

 

See Steven I’ve even avoided your pet hate. But  ……. I should say that a good friend of mine, Neil Storey has explained some of the rules and regulations of uniforms to me. Though I’ve never shown him this picture and as I said it’s a really bad one from wood pulp paper.

 

Thanks and take care, Kitty

Edited 27 April , 2017 by Kitty55
grammar

[Steven Broomfield]

16 minutes ago, Kitty55 said:

Norfolk Education system,

 

Oxymoron alert sounding.

[Kitty55]

You should know

A real pair of goats - yep.

 

And as a matter of interest what does the PAO and PWO stand for on your interests - I know POW but ..... yes I know, me a total ignorant moron but I'd like to know all the same.

 

Thanks and take care, Kitty

Edited 27 April , 2017 by Kitty55

[FROGSMILE]

Glad to help Kitty and you clearly have some quite well developed knowledge after all your years of study. That said, I can't let you (or others who might read your comments) labour under the misapprehension that the 3rd VBNR were "Territorials", they most certainly were not.  They were in fact the last gasp of the "Volunteer Force" and the embodiment of a forlorn hope, that by linking with the regular army new life could be breathed into a corpse.  The Territorial Force, a new concept in terms of its detail, was created by Lord Haldane in 1908.

 

P.S.  I cannot determine from your scan whether the patrol uniform worn by the colour sergeant instructor is scarlet or blue (although the former is more likely).  It was of a pattern unique to the TF and differed between counties.  There might be a surviving example in a local museum.  The chest pockets together with 7-buttons are the key identifier.

Edited 28 April , 2017 by FROGSMILE

[Kitty55]

45 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Glad to help Kitty and you clearly have some quite well developed knowledge after all your years of study. That said, I can't let you (or others) labour under the misapprehension that the 3rd VBNR were "Territorials", they most certainly were not.  They were in fact the last gasp of the "Volunteer Force" and the embodiment of a forlorn hope, that by linking with the regular army new life could be breathed into a corpse.  The Territorial Force, a new concept in terms of its detail, was created by Lord Haldane in 1908.

 

Oh heck now I'm a confused kat again - so what was the territorial force then?

 

I know for instance that they were called part time soldiers or toy soldiers and that most of them worked and had to attend camps, drills etc - well, so many a year anyway but that's all I know really. When it came to going to either the Boer or Great War, from town they seem to be just the same as the regulars on leave when it came to signing up.

 

I spent all last week reading through Lord Haldane's reports and got very confused over them, but never read anything about the terrtorials - strange.

 

I just wish someone in my family had been in the military at some point but nobody ever was (and I've traced all sides back, 1100 being the earliest) - they were all considered too valuable to go to the front - chemists, electrical engineers, motor engineer/designers, code breakers, designing aircraft, etc. They did their bit but none fought, the closest, was my grandfather a merchant marine in both WWI & II.

 

Hence my ignorance. So as my Nan would have said 'if in doubt ask and find out'.

 

I also look forward to seeing the uniform photos.

 

Thanks and take care, Kitty

 

P.S. funny you should mention corpse - I've just found out where the town's soldiers (up to the early 1910's) were placed before their burial - it's a night club now!

Edited 27 April , 2017 by Kitty55

[FROGSMILE]

13 hours ago, Kitty55 said:

 

Oh heck now I'm a confused kat again - so what was the territorial force then?

 

I spent all last week reading through Lord Haldane's reports and got very confused over them, but never read anything about the terrtorials - strange.

 

I just wish someone in my family had been in the military at some point but nobody ever was (and I've traced all sides back, 1100 being the earliest) - they were all considered too valuable to go to the front - chemists, electrical engineers, motor engineer/designers, code breakers, designing aircraft, etc. They did their bit but none fought, the closest, was my grandfather a merchant marine in both WWI & II.

 

Hence my ignorance. So as my Nan would have said 'if in doubt ask and find out'.

 

I also look forward to seeing the uniform photos.

 

Thanks and take care, Kitty

 

P.S. funny you should mention corpse - I've just found out where the town's soldiers (up to the early 1910's) were placed before their burial - it's a night club now!

 

The principal aspect of the Territorial Force is that it merged the previous, Volunteer Force infantry, artillery and engineers with the Yeomanry Cavalry (hitherto separate) into a single, unified force.  It also converted the waning 'Militia' battalions (linked with the regular army in July 1881) into a coherent 'Special Reserve' that could act as a feeder unit for its linked regular battalions in times of war.  Haldane was in effect trying to bring the several disparate organisations into a coherent and, above all, properly coordinated and integrated whole.

Edited 28 April , 2017 by FROGSMILE

[Kitty55]

2 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

 

The principal aspect of the Territorial Force is that it merged the volunteer force infantry, artillery and engineers with the yeomanry cavalry (hitherto separate) into a single, unified force.  It also converted the waning 'Militia' battalions (linked with the regular army in July 1881) into a coherent 'Special Reserve' that could act as a feeder unit for its linked regular battalions in times of war.  Haldane was in effect trying to bring the several disparate organisations into a coherent whole.

 

Now I understand, thanks every so much.

 

[FROGSMILE]

2 minutes ago, Kitty55 said:

 

Now I understand, thanks every so much.

 

 

Glad to help, Kitty.  Let me know if you need any other clarification.

Edited 27 April , 2017 by FROGSMILE

[Kitty55]

1 minute ago, FROGSMILE said:

 

Glad to help. Kitty.  Let me know if you need any other clarification.

 

Thanks will do but on to my favourite research now - soldier's and their families.

 Just sorted out two fellas, a Bertie Guymer, senior and Bertie Guymer, junior – related? No, not at all – but after three days on them, have them sorted – the senior is ironically younger than the junior – thus showing once again fact is stranger than fiction.

I love it.

 

Thanks and take care, Kitty

[FROGSMILE]

13 hours ago, Kitty55 said:

 

Oh heck now I'm a confused kat again - so what was the territorial force then?

 

I know for instance that they were called part time soldiers or toy soldiers and that most of them worked and had to attend camps, drills etc - well, so many a year anyway but that's all I know really. When it came to going to either the Boer or Great War, from town they seem to be just the same as the regulars on leave when it came to signing up.

 

I spent all last week reading through Lord Haldane's reports and got very confused over them, but never read anything about the terrtorials - strange.

 

I just wish someone in my family had been in the military at some point but nobody ever was (and I've traced all sides back, 1100 being the earliest) - they were all considered too valuable to go to the front - chemists, electrical engineers, motor engineer/designers, code breakers, designing aircraft, etc. They did their bit but none fought, the closest, was my grandfather a merchant marine in both WWI & II.

 

Hence my ignorance. So as my Nan would have said 'if in doubt ask and find out'.

 

I also look forward to seeing the uniform photos.

 

Thanks and take care, Kitty

 

P.S. funny you should mention corpse - I've just found out where the town's soldiers (up to the early 1910's) were placed before their burial - it's a night club now!

 

Here are the photos as promised.  You might also find this link of interest:  https://bsamuseum.wordpress.com/ww1-military-bicycles-in-world-war-one-wwi/

Edited 28 April , 2017 by FROGSMILE

[Steven Broomfield]

15 hours ago, Kitty55 said:

You should know

A real pair of goats - yep.

 

And as a matter of interest what does the PAO and PWO stand for on your interests - I know POW but ..... yes I know, me a total ignorant moron but I'd like to know all the same.

 

Thanks and take care, Kitty

PAO = Prince Albert's Own. The 11th Light Dragoons escorted Prince Albert from Dover when he arrived to marry Queen Victoria. he was so impressed by their soldierly bearing that he had them elevated to Hussar status, granted them the right to wear the scarlet trousers (still worn today) used in his Royal livery, and granted them the title which they bore until amalgamation with the 10th in 1968. They also wore his crest as a badge (though not on the beret, which was - uniquely, I suspect - badgeless)

 

PWO = Prince of Wales's Own. The 10th Light Dragoons were 'adopted' by the future George IV ('Prinny') in 1783. He styled them Prince of Wales's Own, and started dressing them in some utterly vile uniforms. His chum, Beau Brummel, held a commission in the regiment for a short while (resigned, allegedly, when they were posted to Manchester on the basis he hadn't agree to foreign service). They became Hussars in 1806 (the first British use of the title) and amalgamated with the 11th in 1968. On the basis of tastelessness, their 'silver' is in fact a gilt colour and looks ghastly.

 

The regiment created by the amalgamation (The Royal Hussars (PWO)) was itself amalgamated in 1992 (with the 14th/20th King's Hussars) to create the current King's Royal Hussars.

[Stoppage Drill]

As any fule kno, Prince Albert's was the  Somerset Light Infantry who were busy defending Jellalabad and Kabul whilst the cavalry were poncing around in Dover wiggling their sabretaches at Albert, and PWO was the West Yorkshire Regiment.

[Steven Broomfield]

Style, old chap. Style.

[Muerrisch]

Great stuff Frogsmile.

 

The only thing that I would add is that "Pay" for the TF, and thus Lance-corporals [see above] is a bit of a misnomer. For Kitty 55's benefit

the only income received by NCOs and men was the same as the regular army when attending summer camp or long courses of instruction, during which they also had bed [of sorts] and and were fed and watered. I was intrigued with the lance-corporal aspect and TF Regulations made no provision for such an appointment, going "private, corporal, sergeant .....". As there were undoubtedly lance-corporals, they had to be paid at the privates' rate when paid at all.

 

The only extra income that I can find for any TF NCO or man is the £5 bounty when the TF was put on a war footing.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Muerrisch said:

Great stuff Frogsmile.

 

The only thing that I would add is that "Pay" for the TF, and thus Lance-corporals [see above] is a bit of a misnomer. For Kitty 55's benefit

the only income received by NCOs and men was the same as the regular army when attending summer camp or long courses of instruction, during which they also had bed [of sorts] and and were fed and watered. I was intrigued with the lance-corporal aspect and TF Regulations made no provision for such an appointment, going "private, corporal, sergeant .....". As there were undoubtedly lance-corporals, they had to be paid at the privates' rate when paid at all.

 

The only extra income that I can find for any TF NCO or man is the £5 bounty when the TF was put on a war footing.

 

That seems logical to me Muerrisch, as many regular lance corporals were unpaid too.  It was only the finite number of paid appointments as laid down in the establishment table that received any financial benefit if I recall correctly.  As Kitty was confused enough already I thought it best not to go too far down into the weeds. I always try to remember that not all enquirers are enthusiastic 'regulation' geeks like we are and so endeavour to keep things as simple as possible.

Edited 28 April , 2017 by FROGSMILE

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Steven Broomfield said:

PAO = Prince Albert's Own. The 11th Light Dragoons escorted Prince Albert from Dover when he arrived to marry Queen Victoria. he was so impressed by their soldierly bearing that he had them elevated to Hussar status, granted them the right to wear the scarlet trousers (still worn today) used in his Royal livery, and granted them the title which they bore until amalgamation with the 10th in 1968. They also wore his crest as a badge (though not on the beret, which was - uniquely, I suspect - badgeless)

 

 

Crimson, not scarlet. 

[Kitty55]

Great stuff fellas and much appreciated.

 

Frogsmile you were right I just wanted a simple layman's explanation I'm not into the different peculiarities of their uniforms I was just interested in what the actual differences were in the uniforms as it was a really horrid picture and I couldn't really see much difference - speaking as a normal layman or should it be lay woman?

 

Personally having studied design the uniform is actually in artist terms classed as scarlet in colour QCE. Scarlet has more red than blue whereas Crimson is darker and has more blue than red. Sorry but design and artistic colours are something I'm thought to be an expert in and have studied at degree level. You can have vermillion, ruby, maroon, burgundy, etc. they are all combinations of red and blue principally although a few also have a little yellow in the mix. It's a pet hate of mine  - people not knowing their colours correctly - i.e. Mauve, violet, purple, indigo etc. are always mixed up by people. If you read what I’m interested in under my name you will see – design of all types and people pay me well for it too.

 

Also as I said Neil Storey the Norfolk Regiment expert (he's done many books on it and Norfolk) has already advised me on the rules etc. and just like Frogsmile has told me that I had my wires crossed concerning 3rdVBNR and Territorials - so that's now gone into my thick skull. As I explained in post 16 I have no family members or friends that know anything about military stuff hence my questions on here - so sorry experts if I seem stupid or simple.

 

Thanks for the reply Steven I now understand what they are but Stoppage Drill I’m not interested in what they did unless it relates to Dereham in some way and sorry for being a fule  because I didn’t know but do you know what ITP medically stands for to explain it to a layman or about the colours I've mentioned? Because most people reading my book will not be experts in military affairs and so I don’t want to blind them with too much information on them – it is principally about the town of Dereham and the folks from it covering the Boer War as an introduction in Chapter 1 showing what the town was like and how it and the soldiers reacted. Following this the next chapters will cover each year of the Great War – i.e. Chapter 2 is August 1914 onwards etc. on to Chapter 9 covering the celebrations and the aftermath of the effects on the town. [And yes, I can add up - Chapter 4 is on the 1915 Zeppelin Raid that hit Dereham.]

 

So when I find someone belonging to the regiments you study/research that comes from town I will probably be in touch Steven if I need help – you might want to run for cover now in preparation or at least dig your trench. Percy my Westie has already prepared one for me in our veg. plot! amongst our carrots and onions.

 

By the way Frogsmile are the photos of the Red and Khaki Uniforms yours, because if so may I enter them in my book as they are so good. If they are yours please can you PM me the name you'd like me to put on the copyright for you and then if I can have your email I'll send you a copy of the pages when they are finished so you can review them before they are published - I do this for anything that others give me - why? - Because courtesy, consideration and kindness cost me nothing but one day might more a mountain. And this book seems to be turning into my personal mountain at the moment.

 

Thanks and take care, Kitty

 

Edited 28 April , 2017 by Kitty55

[FROGSMILE]

Glad you found the information and pictures useful Kitty.

 

The mention of 'crimson' by other posters was purely in connection with the "cherry bum", 11th Hussars, so I'm afraid you got your wires crossed again.

 

No, the photos are not mine per se, the scarlet 'frock' (as it was called to differentiate from 'tunic') came from an Ebay auction online image.  The SD jacket was posted by someone seeking info in the forum here, but you can easily get online photos of SD from online IWM and NAM galleries and they permit publication pro ding you acknowledge the source and are not a commercial affair.

 

Hope that helps.

Edited 28 April , 2017 by FROGSMILE

[Kitty55]

Frogsmile

Wires crossed - fused more like.

 

What does 'with the cherry bun 11th Hussars' mean because to me a cherry but is just a type of cake either with cherries in or one on the top? See - no military knowledge like this at all, as already stated. Surely in the normal average English language unless stipulated otherwise Crimson is a colour as I described - or has someone changed it all whilst I blinked?

 

Is there something on the internet to explain all these extraordinary sayings and/or meanings - I've found nothing on LLT about them?

 

However I do love the picture of the policeman on his bike on the link you gave me above about cyclist and the site was very interesting.

 

Though the cycling craze hit town big time & many bought the cyclist news, nearly all of my town soldiers during the Great War who had a bike, had a motor bike and were despatch riders at the beginning of it. This was probably because J. J. Wright's (a world known company mainly for tractors) stocked nearly every type available from 1894 onwards. The cause of this fever was begun when Dr. Belding, the Bvt. Lt. Col. of the Sanitary Service mentioned above, rode into town on one in his uniform coming back from duty one day - everyone in the Market Place ran down into the High Street and followed him to Wright's new garage establishment. Sales were phenomenal in the first fortnight - loans were taken out in all four town banks by all types of people - even an elderly lady of 69 bought one for herself. A year later and J J. Wright bought himself the town's first car - an Ariel Progress - and today they wonder why the roads in town are so congressed.

 

I've actually had to do two double pages on Despatch Riders in Chapter 2 as there were so many and today well there's just as many bikers around here - including us - we have an old Sunbeam 8, Enfield, Triumph and something else not sure quite what it is - a hybrid of some type? Of course they’re all done up, sorry correction, restored by motor nut hubby - then there's the cars - my 2 old styled Mini Coopers, his 100E Hotrod, a peanut, a Westminister and then his something forgein and big he drives to work each day in - me I just like my mini cooper, it gets me from A to B and back again, is easy to park and fits country lanes perfectly for size as well as the tiny car parking spaces of today.

 

However, I'm now going back to researching a soldier from town who seems to have spent most of his service either in prison, going to trail or at the very least losing his pay - if I could only read the writing of his commanding officer - it might end up on here yet - but I'd best try the ABW first as it's nearer that period of history - 1894 - 8.

 

thanks and take care, Kitty