robins2 Posted 3 May , 2017 Share Posted 3 May , 2017 this one on display Military museum Calgary Canada regards Bob R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 3 May , 2017 Share Posted 3 May , 2017 Nice photo. However..... Tell them the rod on the Mills No 5 is too long. Needs to be 5.5 inches. If they get that wrong then the wire bound SMLE may be the wrong period. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robins2 Posted 3 May , 2017 Share Posted 3 May , 2017 possible, the private collection belongs to Victor Treblonca (sp) a well known collector here, I have no knowledge as to the provenance of the SMLE, just providing the possible WW1 connection as his complete display is from WW1 regards Bob R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 3 May , 2017 Share Posted 3 May , 2017 (edited) I have just received an original 'The Training and Employment of Bombers', issued by the General Staff , Sept. 1916. As shown in the attached photos, this appears to be a wrapped SMLE as can be clearly seen under a glass. The wrapping appears quite thick, and may well be the 'cord' referred to above (#17) or just very thick wire (#5). Regards, JMB Edited 3 May , 2017 by JMB1943 photo malfunction, i.e. operator error Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 3 May , 2017 Share Posted 3 May , 2017 (edited) Wire-wrapped SMLE, 1916.pdf Regards, JMB Edited 3 May , 2017 by JMB1943 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robins2 Posted 4 May , 2017 Share Posted 4 May , 2017 nice find, should answer the OP's original question (at least used in training) Regards Bob R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 4 May , 2017 Share Posted 4 May , 2017 I think this will only apply to training establishments where rifles were probably used for far longer in this role than operationally. As previously stated 1918 looks to be the official date. I'll have a look in some of my old training documents when I get back from France next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 4 May , 2017 Author Share Posted 4 May , 2017 So use at Vimy is not impossible it seems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 4 May , 2017 Share Posted 4 May , 2017 I've had a look at my copy of the Training and Employment of Bombers 1916 and I think the binding on the fore end of the rifle is rope not wire. It is simply too thick. Also one of the firing positions shows the binding being used as a grip. The fierce recoil from firing a grenade would make this sensible. Also these training establishments would have seen their share of barrels bursting and the rope would limit the spread of splinters. So I think the binding started in training establishments with rope, then by 1918 had 'graduated' to a double binding fore end and near the receiver in wire. Post #13 seems to confirm the official date of acceptance into service. So Vimy is quite doubtful in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robins2 Posted 5 May , 2017 Share Posted 5 May , 2017 when appearing in court (former life as police man) the judge would invoke the reasonable doubt issue, in other words if there was reasonable doubt, no conviction, I would say there was a possibility of use at Vimy, but we are dealing with two armies Canadian/British, I believe most of the posts above are relying on Brit field manuals, and no info on the possible use by Canadian troops, so still up in the air???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 6 May , 2017 Share Posted 6 May , 2017 On 5/3/2017 at 02:32, robins2 said: this one on display Military museum Calgary Canada regards Bob R. This is a post WWII Indian ShtLE GF modification it is not a great war example (although it is possible the rifle/receiver is WWI dated). It is identifiable by the square (rather than rounded) foresight protector "ears" and the symmetrical (no right hand side offset) rear sight protector. I have a couple of these rifles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 6 May , 2017 Share Posted 6 May , 2017 Here are 3 Indian GF rifles and a rather well used later production (1964) Ishapore demonstrating the features noted above. 2 wire wrapped rifles (the top with cup attached) and a sheet metal wrapped rifle with sheet steel bolted around rifle Note also the large transverse bolt through the fore-end just behind the rear wrapping. (comparison or wrappings) Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robins2 Posted 6 May , 2017 Share Posted 6 May , 2017 thanks for the clarification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 6 May , 2017 Share Posted 6 May , 2017 (edited) Well spotted Chris. It's clear that the contents of that cabinet do not always match the labels! Your photos also show what a tight fit the wire is in most cases (the example I saw had thicker wire) but none are as thick as the binding in the Training and Employment of Bombers material which I am sure is rope. I think I would be happy with the 1918 date as being the start wire binding in general service rather than at training establishments. Edited 9 May , 2017 by Gunner Bailey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 24 May , 2017 Share Posted 24 May , 2017 Just ran across the LoC for wire/cord-wrapping: The LoC paragraph in question is 22889, dated 9 Dec, 1918. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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