Terry Carter Posted 3 April , 2017 Share Posted 3 April , 2017 I am going to remount and frame a group of medals for a friend. I was hoping to find a bit more info about 2nd Lt P G Clark. He went to France on 23 March 1915 as L/Cpl Army Service Corps, No. SS/621 Commissioned to Kings Royal Rifle Corps 29 Dec 1916 28 June 1918 LG Lieutenant transferred to General List 25 Sept 1918 The address on his Medal Index Card 856 Sherman Avenue 9th East Salt Lake City Utah USA (p.s. This is info is not being gathered for any financial gain, I work in the mounting and framing business and I use offcuts of card and moulding that would other wise be binned) Thanks Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 3 April , 2017 Share Posted 3 April , 2017 (edited) Still researching this chap for you, but Lt P.G. Clark was in 20th (Service) Battalion (British Empire League Pioneers), KRRC, attached to 3rd Division as divisional pioneers. There are a couple of references to him (as P.G.Clarke) in the battalion history ... Quote The achievements [around Monchy-le-Preux in April 1917] were subsequently immortalised by a ballad, the words written by Fearby [Lt. F.H. Fearby], which a glee party of D Company officers used to sing with great effect. It contained a particularly popular reference to Sec.-Lieut. P.G. Clarke, who at this time discharged the very grim duty - henceforward always entrusted to an officer of the battalion during active operations - of organising the search for, over the battlefield, the identification and burial of the dead of the 3rd Division. Clark, it should be mentioned, did this ghastly work with great efficiency. Quote There was only one untoward event during those happy days of Liencourt [a week spent in the rest area from at Liencourt from 22 May 1917], and even that was funny. The transport officer - at that time Brodribb [2/Lt. F.J. Brodribb] - could not even with the best will in the world meet the demand for horses. In these circumstances, some venturesome spirits did not draw the line at mounting mules. Among these was P.G. Clarke, whose attempt to incite his leisurely and obstinate quadruped to greater activity by blowing a whistle shrilly in its ear cause that much-tried animal to buck and give its rider a severe fall, as the result of which his days in France were numbered. More to follow. Mark Edited 3 April , 2017 by MBrockway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 3 April , 2017 Share Posted 3 April , 2017 He appears on the KRRC's BW&VM medal roll, but the only information there is related to the despatch process for his physical medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 3 April , 2017 Share Posted 3 April , 2017 With an SS prefixed ASC service number, he is likely to have had a civvy street skill relevant to supply and logistics. - e.g. warehousing, docks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Carter Posted 3 April , 2017 Author Share Posted 3 April , 2017 Thanks very much for the information supplied and also taking the time to sort it. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 3 April , 2017 Share Posted 3 April , 2017 Terry - unfortunately I do not yet have the 20/KRRC war diary. It would be very interesting to see how this accident with the mule is recorded there. Certainly the implication is that he eventually ended up leaving the Front because of it. He is not listed as wounded/sick in the KRRC Chronicle. Clark continues being listed as 2/Lt with 20/KRRC up until July 1918. He then appears to have been seconded to the Records Office - presumably either at the IBD or back at Rifles Records Office in Winchester. The Army Lists record him as 20/KRRC (Records Office) for Aug through Oct 1918 and then he drops off onto the General List section, still at a Records Office, but off the strength of the KRRC. I still have a few hares running on him, but the records of the Depot and Records Office back in Blighty are sparse. There's nothing mentioned in the relevant KRRC Chronicle entries for 1917-1922. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 3 April , 2017 Share Posted 3 April , 2017 Here's the announcement of his move to the General List in the London Gazette of 22 Oct 1918 (Issue 30971, p.12566) ... The Special Appointments system was set up as a way of formalising a pay and career structure for men employed extra-regimentally. Class HH is the step on the Salary Scale. It paid £300 pa, or £250 if accommodation was provided. The steps with doubled letters were jobs outside the War Office. Lots more detail here: Notice he is still a 2/Lt here. I'm still chasing up what happened about his promotion to full Lieutenant 28 Jun 1918 that you mention. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 3 April , 2017 Share Posted 3 April , 2017 His promotion to (temporary) full Lieutenant was announced in the London Gazette of 29 Nov 1918 (Issue 31044, p.14297), but was back dated to 29 Jun 1918 ... Still don't have his forenames! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 3 April , 2017 Share Posted 3 April , 2017 Clark did not complete his service until Apr 1920 ... London Gazette Issue 32190 12 Jan 1921 p.352 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Carter Posted 3 April , 2017 Author Share Posted 3 April , 2017 Thanks again for the further information. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 3 April , 2017 Share Posted 3 April , 2017 (edited) The IWM (via Google) shows mention of him as a Burials Officer with a Graves Registration Unit and in somewhat controversial circumstances: http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205026180 Steve. Edited 3 April , 2017 by Stebie9173 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 3 April , 2017 Share Posted 3 April , 2017 (edited) I've now found he was an Assistant Officer at the Records Office of the Royal Engineers (Transportation Branch) at 19b Tavistock Square, London WC1. He is first listed as such in the Monthly Army List for November 1918, but with dates 25 Feb 1918 and 25 Sep 1918. The latter is his transfer off the KRRC strength and onto the General List. I wonder if 25 Feb 1918 is when he actually began work there? He's marked as "(Records Office)" in the KRRC list from Aug 1918 (text prepared in Jul 1918). This would tie up well with his fast track Supply Specials enlistment into the ASC and reinforces the probability he had some sort of pre-War transport/logistics background. Edited 3 April , 2017 by MBrockway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 3 April , 2017 Share Posted 3 April , 2017 7 minutes ago, Stebie9173 said: The IWM (via Google) shows mention of him as a Burials Officer with a Graves Registration Unit and in somewhat controversial circumstances: http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205026180 Steve. Crikey! This anecdote from the battalion history begins to have some subtle undertones in the light of Steve's new info, which also concerns events in April 1917 .. Quote The achievements [around Monchy-le-Preux in April 1917] were subsequently immortalised by a ballad, the words written by Fearby [Lt. F.H. Fearby], which a glee party of D Company officers used to sing with great effect. It contained a particularly popular reference to Sec.-Lieut. P.G. Clarke, who at this time discharged the very grim duty - henceforward always entrusted to an officer of the battalion during active operations - of organising the search for, over the battlefield, the identification and burial of the dead of the 3rd Division. Clarke, it should be mentioned, did this ghastly work with great efficiency. ... and one wonders what exactly the song was about. P.G. Clark is indeed heading in an unexpected direction! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 3 April , 2017 Share Posted 3 April , 2017 Have we got as far as his names yet? Reference: WO 339/83696 Description: 2/Lieutenant Percy George CLARK The King's Royal Rifle Corps. http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1137524 Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 3 April , 2017 Share Posted 3 April , 2017 Nice one! I'm searching The Times at the moment for a report on the missing effects. Forenames very useful, though I'd be surprised if either officer is actually named in any article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 3 April , 2017 Share Posted 3 April , 2017 (edited) I wonder if this could be our Percy ... Quote Percy George Clark Birthdate: September 16, 1887 (94) Birthplace: Feering, Essex, UK Death: Died June 13, 1982 in Salt Lake City, UT, USA Place of Burial: Salt Lake City, UT, USA Immediate Family: Son of Samuel Clark and Mary Ellen Clark Husband of Margaret Clark Father of Basil Clark Brother of Herbert Clark; Emily Ellen Clark; William Leonard Clark; Albert Frank Clark; Kate Clark and 7 others Source of above is here Edited 3 April , 2017 by MBrockway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 3 April , 2017 Share Posted 3 April , 2017 (edited) There are four family trees on Ancestry that show: Percy George Clark Birth 16-9-1887, Feering, Essex. 1891 Census: Feering, Essex - youngest son of Ellen M Clark, 7 older siblings Married to Margaret Chambers about 1912 Naturalised American Citizen 15-7-1920 Died 15-6-1982 at Salt Lake City, Utah Ah, same conclusion as you. The pop-up of your post has just arrived... Steve. Edited 3 April , 2017 by Stebie9173 (Edited for spelling) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 3 April , 2017 Share Posted 3 April , 2017 Also Samuel Clark as father (1834-1890). Find a Grave seems to tie up the connection: Birth: Sep. 16, 1887 Feering Braintree District Essex, England Death: Jun. 13, 1982 Salt Lake City Salt Lake County Utah, USA KING'S ROYAL RIFLE CORPS Son of Samuel Clark and Mary Ellen Cook Married Emma Dolores Seal, 17 August 1935, Coalville, Summit, Utah Family links: Spouse: Emma Dolores Seal Clark (1903 - 1995) Burial: Salt Lake City Cemetery Salt Lake City Salt Lake County Utah, USA Plot: NORTH_2_7_2W Maintained by: SMSmith Originally Created by: Judie Latshaw Huff Record added: Nov 20, 2008 Find A Grave Memorial# 31576538 https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=31576538&ref=acom A picture of his grave on there seems conclusive! Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 3 April , 2017 Share Posted 3 April , 2017 Mine's from a general search hit on Geni.com. I don't have Ancestry just now, so cannot get onto census material and "P.G. Clark" was too daunting to tackle on FreeBMD! Any chance you could have a look at the 20/KRRC war diary for April/May 1917? Theoretically it should be under 3rd Division > Divisional Troops, but with Ancestry, it could be filed anywhere! Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 3 April , 2017 Share Posted 3 April , 2017 Both NA and Ancestry seem to have 20 K.R.R.C. diaries listed only up to December 1916 and from January 1919. Bit late for me to try and go needle finding - I will see if I get chance tomorrow. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Carter Posted 4 April , 2017 Author Share Posted 4 April , 2017 Wow! What a fantastic response you have all supplied. Thanks again. P.s can I add that even though I'm going to attempt to mount and frame his medals. I am not a medal mounter and I'm only doing a favour for a close friend I am not a medal collector and know nothing about mounting medals. I say this because I've had enquiries via private messages asking about mounting medals. Cheers Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 4 April , 2017 Share Posted 4 April , 2017 (edited) 11 hours ago, Stebie9173 said: Both NA and Ancestry seem to have 20 K.R.R.C. diaries listed only up to December 1916 and from January 1919. Bit late for me to try and go needle finding - I will see if I get chance tomorrow. Steve. Exactly what I'm finding now. Have also combed the infamous "Various bridages" sections to no avail. Looks like the missing section may have been misfiled in the paper originals and is probably shuffled in with the 23rd Countyshires The last page before the gap is the end of Dec 1916. Percy Clark was commissioned into the KRRC on 29 Dec 1916. Unsurprisingly he is not mentioned in the 29-31 Dec 1916 20/KRRC war diary entries. Edited 4 April , 2017 by MBrockway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 4 April , 2017 Share Posted 4 April , 2017 (edited) I've been looking into his non-military history ... 1891 Census Feering Street Cottages, Feering, Essex http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sidebyside.cfm#zoom=16&lat=51.8518&lon=0.7183&layers=171&right=BingSat (two cottages before entry for School House) Household members ... CLARK, Ellen M; 47 yrs; head; widow; Born: Goldhanger, Essex - , Clara; 22 yrs; daughter; cook, domestic; - , Ethel; 16 yrs; daughter; pupil teacher; - , Frank A; 14 yrs; son; agricultural labourer; - , Herbert; 12 yrs; son; house boy; - , Eva M; 10 yrs; daughter; scholar; - , Sidney C; 8 yrs; son; scholar; - , Harry; 6 yrs; son; scholar; - , Percy G; 3 yrs; son; scholar; All children born in Feering, Essex 1901 Census Feering Street, Feering, Essex (one cottage after entry for School House, but probably the same building as 1891) Household members ... CLARK, Mary E, 57 yrs; head; widow; - , Percy G; 13 yrs; son; ?garden? & house boy; BRIGHT, Charles; 50 yrs; boarder; carpenter; Born: Feering, Essex 1911 Census 56 West Street, Dorking, Surreyhttp://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sidebyside.cfm#zoom=20&lat=51.2317&lon=-0.3343&layers=173&right=osm Boarding with three others in household of Catherine Alice JACKSON, 38 yrs, widow, confectioner.Occupation: Asst Supt Insurance Company (but no company name is given.) 1913 KELLY'S DIRECTORY for SURREY DORKING - COMMERCIAL section JACKSON, Alice (Mrs.), baker, 56 West Street also these insurance and assurance entries ...BARKER, Charles, assistant supt. Prudential Insurance Co. Limited, 26 Wathen Road EDSER, Harvey, insurance agent, 20 Hampstead Road JAMES, Harry, insurance agent, 18 Jubilee Terrace WHITE & SONS, auctioneers, land agents, timber surveyors & valuers & agents for the Liverpool & London & Globe Railway Passengers' Insurance Co., Imperial Live Stock Insurance Association Limited & Employers' Liability Assurance Corporation Limited; offices, 18 High Street; & at Leatherhead. See advertisement. WILES, Richard W., insurance agent, 43 Hart Road Cross-referencing these names In the 1911 Census, there are ...BARKER, Charles, 31 yrs, insurance agent (Prudential), residing at 20 Lamont Road, Chelsea EDSER, Harvey, 20 Hampstead Road, Dorking, house painter JAMES, Harry Randall, 18 Jubilee Terrace, Dorking, life assurance agent WILES, Richard William, 43 Hart Road, Dorking, assurance agent, Edser, James and Wiles all appear in Dorking in 1911 and 1913, whereas Charles Barker was an agent for the Prudential living in in Chelsea in 1911, but is doing same in Dorking in 1913. This made we speculate that our Percy Clark might be the Dorking local "Man from the Pru" in 1911, predecessor to Charles Barker, but then I uncovered this chap in the 1911 Census at Barker's 1913 address: CHAMPION, Frank Charles, 33 yrs, 26 Wathen Road, Dorking, Assistant Superintendent, Prudential Assurance Co Further digging in the 1911 census revealed 22 chaps in Dorking with occupation containing 'insurance' or 'assurance' (which includes most of the above). The rather ostentatious "Assistant Superintendent" job title does suggest Percy's working for a larger company, not acting as an agent, and it's possible the Pru may have had more than one Assistant Superintendent position in Dorking, but I don't think we can categorically say Percy worked for the Prudential. White & Sons of Dorking & Leatherhead seem to be a large-ish concern possibly employing 'assistant superintendents', or Percy could have been working for one of the other national insurance outfits. Either way, we have certainly confirmed Percy as a junior manager in insurance/assurance in civvy street before the war. Mark Edited 4 April , 2017 by MBrockway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 4 April , 2017 Share Posted 4 April , 2017 14 hours ago, MBrockway said: Nice one! I'm searching The Times at the moment for a report on the missing effects. Forenames very useful, though I'd be surprised if either officer is actually named in any article. Nothing found I'm afraid, but a difficult one for which to pick cast iron search terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 4 April , 2017 Share Posted 4 April , 2017 Further digging in the 1913 KELLY'S DIRECTORY for Surrey has turned up this ... CLARK, Percy G., insurance agent, 4 Osborne Road, Redhill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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