Thomas W. Murray Telegraphist

[Rundtinden]

Looking for information on Thomas William? Murray Born in Preston. He was aboard the Norwegian steamer Songa when it was torpedoed by a German submarine in January 1940. According to himself in an interview with a local Irish newspaper he had been torpedoed (at least) twice in ww1, aboard the Cymric and the Laurentic. Can anyone confirm this? Searching the national archives I found him on some other ships crew lists (1915) : Bohemian, Cymric, Empress of Britain, Manistee, and from his own words in an Australian paper: Worchestershire and Huayna. The last two before the war. He also appears in a 1912 Marconist magazine, changing from Merion to Empress Queen. According to the archives he got the Mercantile marine ribbon, the British medal ribbon and the British medal in ww1. In ww2 he got the war medal. Appreciate any information. Time of birth, time and cause of death. What ships, if any, did he serve on during ww2. Pictures etc.

Svein Korsvold

[seaJane]

I hope someone else will be able to help with the Great War side but for WW2 your best bet will be to ask on  http://www.ww2talk.com/index.php

 

Good luck!

 

[MerchantOldSalt]

Thomas William Murray born 10 April 1889, Preston Lancashire, died 31 Dec 1948 Blackburn Lancashire. You will need to obtain his Death Certificate for why he died, he was 61. Pretty sure that is your man

 

His CR10 Seaman's Identity Card, is available on Find My Past with a photo and confirms his PMG Certificate No. 582 as First Class Wireless Operator. He was serving on White Star Lines "ADRIATIC" in April 1919.  There are also some family photographs on Ancestry, one in uniform.

 

TH

[Rundtinden]

13 hours ago, seaJane said:

I hope someone else will be able to help with the Great War side but for WW2 your best bet will be to ask on  http://www.ww2talk.com/index.php

 

Good luck!

 

Thank you! Will do!

[Rundtinden]

2 hours ago, MerchantOldSalt said:

Thomas William Murray born 10 April 1889, Preston Lancashire, died 31 Dec 1948 Blackburn Lancashire. You will need to obtain his Death Certificate for why he died, he was 61. Pretty sure that is your man

 

His CR10 Seaman's Identity Card, is available on Find My Past with a photo and confirms his PMG Certificate No. 582 as First Class Wireless Operator. He was serving on White Star Lines "ADRIATIC" in April 1919.  There are also some family photographs on Ancestry, one in uniform.

 

TH

Thank you! I think you are right. I suspected the date of birth to be april 10. Any idea why he got the war medal in ww2? I downloaded the medal card from the national archives, but there are no details on service etc. The medal card from ww1 is more informative. The reason for my interest is a research I am doing about an early resistance group in Bergen, Norway april-august 1940. This group is mentioned in quite a few books, and the identity of the participants are well known, except for one "Thomas Murray" Englishman or American. He came apparently from nowhere, helped them with wireless communication and codes for transmitting information on German forces to England, and disappeared. To my knowledge he has never been identified. Most authors thought he was British naval intelligence. He is described as a huge man, with old injuries to the neck and to one of his arms. He claims to have been torpedoed several times during ww1. Between the wars he worked in the US for the federals tracing gangsters. All in his own words. When i saw one "Thomas Murray" on the Songa crew list i began to suspect he is the same man. S.s. Songa was owned by a company from Bergen, and according to old local newspapers the crew were shipped home in february/march 1940 after being torpedoed on January 22. So he might well have been in Bergen when the Germans attacked on April 9. An old letter from a Norwegian archive states that he was taken to Shetland by a fishing vessel later that summer together with Villiers and Stoddard from the British Convoy office in Bergen. I also found an article from a Australian Newspaper in 1941. Must be the same man: http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/139904471. Looking for any information on this fascinating character and evidence on his presence in Bergen 1940.

Svein

[Rundtinden]

Trying to verify information regarding Thomas William Murray. Need to have a look at the crew list for S.S Laurentic and S.S Cymric at the time of their sinking. Cymric in May 1916, and Laurentic in January 1917. Complete Survivors list from the Laurentic may also be helpful.

 

Regards

Svein Korsvold

 

[WeeArticle]

There is no definitive crew list for the Laurentic at the time of the sinking. I discussed this with staff at the national Archives and they say that the list would have remained with the ship till it reached its destination, so it went down with the ship. This is one reason why there is no consistency in the numbers of men who died. I have a list compiled from Admiralty reports in newspapers at the time of the sinking but I know of at least one man saved from the ship who is not listed in these newspaper reports. He appears in an article describing his escape:- 

"Befast Artificer’s Narrow Escape

Artificer Joseph Hanna, of 47, Ormeau Road, Belfast, who was serving on the Laurentic, was picked up after  narrow escape from death.  He got away from the ill-fated vessel through one of the port-holes, and was half an hour in the water before he was rescued, keeping himself afloat by means of a lifebelt which he was fortunate enough to pick up.  He is now undergoing treatment in an English port, and has written home stating that he is nearly all right again.  Artificer Hanna, who is a son of Mr. Edward Hanna, served his time in the Sirocco Engineering Works and was on his first voyage, having volunteered for service abut two months ago".
Belfast Newsletter 1st February 1917

 

So it's possible that Thomas W. Murray was on the ship but was also missing from the list of survivors.

 

[Ralph Currell]

I'm not sure if the poster of the original question is still watching, but here's some information gleaned from various issues of 'The Wireless World', published by the Marconi Company.

 

As at 13 July 1914, T.W. Murray was a wireless operator on the Aquitania.  The March 1917 issue mentions that he is 'senior operator on an important liner of the R.M.S.P. Company,' and that his wife was decorated by the Italian government for her service with the Red Cross on the Italian front.

 

The wireless operators on the Cymric at the time of her sinking were W. Nicholas and P.C. Fisher.  The operators on the Laurentic when sunk are given as Richard J. Thompson and Arthur Bower (both Warrant Telegraphists).  So if Murray was on either of those vessels when they were lost, he does not appear to have been traveling as wireless operator.

 

Regards,

  Ralph

 

 

Edited 19 March , 2019 by Ralph Currell