Vigotonefan Posted 10 March , 2017 Share Posted 10 March , 2017 (edited) Evening Guys, Was wondering if anyone could help in providing any photos/sources for photograhs of the 1st Battalion Grenadier Gaurds circa 15-18 as a company/platoon/section. I have contacted the GG regiment who have said that they do not hold anything there... A check with the Army museum, where the archive is currently being transfered, could not give me much information apart from to say "we do not hold many pictures for that archive". I have checked the likes of ebay & set markers to update if anything comes up (they do have a few on there). I have uploaded a pic to show the type of thing i am after. I have also looked through the excellent sources on the IWM 'search' tool but it seems to have 'general' photos & not group ones that i am after.... On a side note (& i know this isnt technucally the correct area to ask!) But i have included a oicture of a GG in special uniform, did all GG have this as well as the usual army kit? (As well as the black bearskin head gear?) I do not have any pics of my man wearing it.... Kind Regards, -David. My man enlisted in March 1915.... Edited 10 March , 2017 by Vigotonefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Black Posted 10 March , 2017 Share Posted 10 March , 2017 (edited) David, Try the BNA online. July 1915 squad photo here Cheers, Derek Edited 11 March , 2017 by Derek Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 10 March , 2017 Share Posted 10 March , 2017 The scarlet Home Service Dress [ie best] was placed in abeyance with commencement of hostilities. I am sure that new recruits were not issued with it, but less certain about retention [and possibly wear for Guard Mounting] by pre-war men remaining at Home. An expert will come along later. The squad passing out photos were taken routinely throughout the war "the truth is out there!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tullybrone Posted 11 March , 2017 Share Posted 11 March , 2017 IIRC Guards at Buckingham Palace etc "mounted guard" in Khaki from August 1914 until early 1920. Recall photo of HRH Prince of Wales "Guard Mounting" with Grenadier Guards Sept 1914 in khaki. Steve Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigotonefan Posted 12 March , 2017 Author Share Posted 12 March , 2017 Thank you guys for your excellent replies, as always very much appreciated! Derek, thanks for the update as well, sadly can not see my man but i am saving these images for future use/research. Ive looked at the BNA online (i assume this means British National Archive) but could not see anything as of yet. This informstion fits in VERY nicely to Norman D.Cliff's terrific account in his book 'To Hell & Back With The Guards' (who was also in the 1st Bn) written many decades after the events (page 28): "The event of highest importance on which the whole organisation of the barracks concentrated was the ceremony of Mounting Of The Guard. When the duty fell on our battalion the late hours of the previous night & early hours of the ceremonial morning were spent on extra polishing in order to present an even more than usually smart appearance. Although those performing guard duties wore wartime khaki, the Bandsmen retained their scarlet tunics and their bearskins..." If we take my picture of Sgt J.M McCann & his squad i have uploaded as a 'general' example, would he and these men have transfered as 'one' over to France? Or would Sgt McCann's role was simply (for want of a better word) to get these men through the training process only? Currently i can get my man down to the 1st Bn but no further: Company, Platoon, Section... would finding a picture like this from his training period provide any evidence/facts of anything more specific? as Norman suggests he was ALREADY in his (1st) battalion even in this period of training BEFORE advancing to France... My man signed up on 15th March 1915, is it safe to say he would of started training immediately? He lived in Newmarket, Suffolk so a long journey to go to London, sign up & then head back home if not. Kind Regards, -David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 12 March , 2017 Share Posted 12 March , 2017 Given the need for soldiers at the front then trained squads would be likely to go as a complete draft or part of a larger draft. However, in addition to the sergeant, there are three soldiers in this group who would be likely to stay at Home. They are left and right flank, and centre above the sergeant, all without webbing equipment. These were "trained soldiers" who nursed every squad through the intricacies of army life, uniform and kit preparation, regimental customs, barrack cleaning, kit layout and the rest. The Guards were unique in having a "Trained Soldier" badge, but I don't see one on these three men. The right flank man [left as you look] has at least 5 years Good Conduct service from his two chevrons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Black Posted 12 March , 2017 Share Posted 12 March , 2017 4 hours ago, Vigotonefan said: Thank you guys for your excellent replies, as always very much appreciated! Derek, thanks for the update as well, sadly can not see my man but i am saving these images for future use/research. Ive looked at the BNA online (i assume this means British National Archive) but could not see anything as of yet. Kind Regards, -David. The British Newspaper Archive. Try the sphere, tatler and illustreted London news. cheers, Derek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigotonefan Posted 12 March , 2017 Author Share Posted 12 March , 2017 Thats great stuff guys, thankyou! Derek, not great searching on my phone so will check on the PC tomorrow with the corrected details. From reading Cliff's book, the training looked a horrific experience for the raw recruits that bordered on the sadistic at times... the NCO's were particularly despised & hated if he is to be believed. Is it known the 'average' training time from raw recruits enlisting/starting to then finally passing out & these particular photos taken? As previously stated, my man enlisted on the 17th (not 15th, apologies!) March 1915 & joined at White City on the 19th March 15. He did not go overseas until 30th April 1916 which is a fairly long time period to be home-based.... Cliff in his book is rather vague but hints at his enlistment in early 1915 & being sent over to France in October 1915.... I suspect even if i do find a picture of him with his squad in training that it would not yield a huge amount of further information as it was only once he had landed in France would he have been assigned to his battalion/company/platoon/section... Kind Regards, -David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigotonefan Posted 12 March , 2017 Author Share Posted 12 March , 2017 *If i could add one further question: would the group photos have been taken at Caterham or Wellington Barracks? Cliff states that the main training was conducted at Caterham first and then the troops were 'polished' at Wellington before being shipped over to France... Kind Regards, -David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tullybrone Posted 13 March , 2017 Share Posted 13 March , 2017 IMHO the background buildings in the Squad Photo looks like Caterham Barracks. I've seen several Squad Photos (relatives & others) from the 1930's with similar background buildings. Steve Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loader Posted 14 March , 2017 Share Posted 14 March , 2017 I too have heard that the Guards basic training was especially hard & the ncos were hated very much. I recall hearing that some recruits died & an investigation was finally undertaken. A bit of a scandal ensued. Been so long ago I hope not getting things mixed up. Seem to recall that some of the recruits involved were police officers who had joined & did not put up with the abuse very long. Hope someone can clear it up & that my memory is not totally off base with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GemmaD Posted 5 December , 2018 Share Posted 5 December , 2018 (edited) My great great uncle was in the grenadier guards 1st battalion. Following post for pictures Edited 5 December , 2018 by GemmaD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Black Posted 10 December , 2020 Share Posted 10 December , 2020 On 10/03/2017 at 19:15, Vigotonefan said: Evening Guys, Was wondering if anyone could help in providing any photos/sources for photograhs of the 1st Battalion Grenadier Gaurds circa 15-18 as a company/platoon/section. I have contacted the GG regiment who have said that they do not hold anything there... A check with the Army museum, where the archive is currently being transfered, could not give me much information apart from to say "we do not hold many pictures for that archive". I have checked the likes of ebay & set markers to update if anything comes up (they do have a few on there). I have uploaded a pic to show the type of thing i am after. I have also looked through the excellent sources on the IWM 'search' tool but it seems to have 'general' photos & not group ones that i am after.... On a side note (& i know this isnt technucally the correct area to ask!) But i have included a oicture of a GG in special uniform, did all GG have this as well as the usual army kit? (As well as the black bearskin head gear?) I do not have any pics of my man wearing it.... Kind Regards, -David. My man enlisted in March 1915.... His enlisting mid march 1915 would be about right for passing out in the June. Might this be you chap second row from back, second from left? (image via ebay) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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