1st 7th Worcs (Dudley Men)

[Rogueraven]

 1st 7th Worcestershire Regiment, No 1 Section "H" Coy Photograph taken after 1913.

 

I will start with people I know from previous research and information acquired from relatives.

 

W. Elwood (Ellwood) 1534,5343,202358 His real name is Edward William Ellwood, but used the name William. His original draft is complete but throws up a question that is puzzling. William Elwood Original Reg No. is 1534 according to his draft. He was embodied in 1914 and discharged in 1916 without seeing overseas service.  He re-enlisted in 1916 3 months after his discharge and was given the new number 5343 at some point his number changed again to 202358. He was wounded in action between 23/25 April 1917, during action in this period William went over the top with a James Moss (200104) who is recorded killed in action on the 23rd April 1917 with the 6 digit service number. So I am assuming William's 6 digit number could have been before this date.

 

William did not see oversea's service until 1916 according to his MIC and draft, however on his original service number 1534 his draft suggests he received the 1914/15 Star. His MIC also fails to mention his 1534 number but this is clearly evident to belong to him in his draft. Could anyone explain this ? The reason why I asked because this could have implications with regards to identification of other soldiers in the photo if their early number is not listed on the MIC and no drafts can be found. 

 

T. Bruton Full name is Thomas Aloysius Bruton, There are various articles with regards to Bruton in the Dudley Herald including his commission to 2Lt. Also other family members contributions to the war effort. But being his an officer his paper work can no longer be found. He was killed in action 1st September 1918 6th Bn Worcs but was attd to 4th Bn Worcs. We know from newspaper he was originally 1st 7th Worcestershire Regiment.

 

S .Cooper,  Samuel Cooper 1072. There are two Samuel Cooper's I have managed to locate in 1st 7th with early numbers, 1072 and 2247 I am certain the one pictured is 1072 because according to 1072's draft he was promoted to Corporal in 1913 and 2247 is listed as a private. Knowing that the photograph is pre 1914 evidence within it suggests that S.Cooper is a Corporal. We can never be 100% certain but I think the chances of that it being wrong is low.

 

R. Greenfield, Richard Greenfield. 2215 He is the younger brother of Peter Greenfield 203413 (DoW 23rd March 1918)  and a cousin to a William Evans 3703 (KIA 21st August 1916).

Peter Greenfield was in 2nd 7th Worc on the number 20360, William Evans who actually might be on the back row of the picture is with the 1st 7th. Richard Greenfield W.Badge 70250 7th Bn Worcs, so according to badge his 1st or 2nd 7th.

 

What research suggests

 

J. Beigan (Spelling mistake in article) John Robert Beagin D.C.M, 1703. Died of Wounds 2nd June 1915 Calvaire (Essex) Belgium.

J. Davies, John Frederick Davies 2605. Killed in action 9th May 1915. Calvaire (Essex) Belgium.

 

Ties to 1/7th Landing in France

 

T. Bunch, Thomas Bunch  643.  MIC Entry 31st March 1915

J. Dunn, John Dunn 1673. MIC Entry 31st March 1915

J. Harris, Jabez Harris 63. MIC Entry 31st March 1915 Later number 48731 Kings Own YLI

 

W.Badge

 

G.Bellamy, George Bellamy 709. W.Badge 33930 7th Bn Worcs (Early Reg No. recorded)

 

Killed in Action, early reg number.

 

J.Cartwright, Joseph Cartwright 1675. Killed in Action  21st July 1916. Draft enlisted 1912 1st 7th Worcs.

 

Early Numbers.

 

J. Ashman, John Ashman 481 C.S.M 1st 7th.

A. Banner, Albert Banner 1514. 1914/15 Star 1st 7th later of 28th County of London Reg Artistic Rifles

B. Cooper, Benjamin Cooper 22788 (1743 RR 1912) Is this a reference to him being regimental reserve in 1912 on the number 1743 ? It is wrote next to his name in WW1 Service Medals and Awards Roll.

W. Dolan, William Dolan 2259 7th Bn Worc (MIC) 34463 20th Coy M.G.C.

G. Forrest, George Forrest 2021, 655777 7th Bn Enlisted 26th May 1913 (1914/15 Star) Later number is Labour Corps.

 

Names with no information on.

 

C. Baker

E. Barnsley (Enoch Barnsley)

F. Collins

G. Collins

T. Fellows

 

If anyone has any information with regards to names mentioned in the post or questions raised please comment.

 

Thanks

 

James

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 8 March , 2017 by Rogueraven

[Michelle Young]

I have the DCM citation for Beagin

 

taken from London Gazette, supplement ZJ-1-622 page 6360

 

For conspicuous gallantry displayed near Le Gheer on 19th April1915. The telephone wire having been cut at an isolated post which the enemy was shelling, L/Cpl Beagin at once voluntarily proceeded 100 yards across an open space under rifle and shell fire and connected the post again with a spare instrument.

 

Beagin is also mentioned by Roland Leighton in a letter to Vera Brittain, Leighton having attended his funeral, and Beagin also sang at a concert that Leighton had arranged.

 

Michelle 

 

[Rogueraven]

Roland Leighton also mentions the soldier killed on the 9th May to Vera Brittain which would have been John Frederick Davies 2605. both him and John Robert Beagin are buried in our little cemetery on the road to the trenches. 

Edited 9 March , 2017 by Rogueraven

[ss002d6252]

Quote

W. Elwood (Ellwood) 1534,5343,202358

 

His 6 digit number would have been allocated early 1917 when the re-numbering took place.
 

#202353 originally served as #5337 - called up for service on 19 July 1916 and posted to the 7th on 20 July 1916 so Ellwood would have been called up on or just before this date.

 

There is a medal roll entry for #1534 Ellwood for a Star - shows date of entry overseas as 31/3/15.

 

Craig

Edited 9 March , 2017 by ss002d6252

[Rogueraven]

William Elwood - Medal index card does not show the entry for 31st March 1915 also does not show the Reg No. 1534. But we know from his draft he was in France from 31st March 1915 until 8th April 1916 (7/4/16 Transferred to England) on 12/4/1916 he was discharged "The termination of his period of engagement" under para 392 XXI RR) in Kidderminster (4 years service from 5/4/1911) as Pte William Elwood 1534. He re-enlisted 25th June 1916 as 5343 7th Bn Worcs. Joined unit in field 24 September 1916 (Allotted 202358 24/11/16)  G.S.W right shoulder 25/4/1917. rejoined unit (L/Cpl) 2/5/1917. G.S.W Arm left 9/10/1917 Transfered to England 19/10/1917.  From 5/1/18 seems to be located in Blyth until 9/10/18 and discharged 24/2/1919.

 

Why is his early reg number  and 1915 entry date not on his MIC is what I am questioning.

Edited 9 March , 2017 by Rogueraven

[ss002d6252]

Quote

Why is his early reg number  and 1915 entry date not on his MIC is what I am questioning.

It's wasn't uncommon for this to happen where a man had separate service periods - the star was certainly awarded as the medal roll makes clear.

Not sure which medal index card you're looking at though - (it wasn't overly uncommon for more than one card to have been made out in error) - but;

His medal index card on ancestry shows all the relevant details, including date of entry etc
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1262/30850_A000503-00803?pid=55713&backurl=http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DCFr1538%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3DMedalRolls%26gss%3Dangs-d%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26msT%3D1%26_F8007A65%3D202358%20%26MSAV%3D1%26uidh%3Dyvc%26pcat%3D39%26fh%3D5%26h%3D55713%26recoff%3D60%2061%26ml_rpos%3D6&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=CFr1538&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

Craig

Edited 9 March , 2017 by ss002d6252

[Rogueraven]

Thanks I don't have this card and it is clearly marked army reserve, but the above card is missing 5343. I will have to speak with the relatives to get copy of the other card.

[Rogueraven]

Names with no information possibles

 

F. Collins, Frank Collins 20739. (Entry 28th August 1915) Class Z Army Reserve. Potential for earlier number ? 

T. Fellows, Thomas Fellows 3232 (Entry 31st March 1915) Class Z Army Reserve

 

Still nothing on C. Baker, E, Barnsley and G, Collins

 

James

[enoch beard]

691 sgt t.a. bruton was awarded MM london gazette 11th november 1916 page 10909

he enlisted 11/5/08 into 7th worcesters

[Mark1959]

Are you sure re Enoch Barnsley. I note that the identification is done from memory. The only Enoch I can find is 36625 Worc Regiment. No Star so only overseas service until post-1915. That service is with 10th, 1st and 2nd. This maybe the same man enlisted March 1913 from Oldbury. Papers exist for the 1913 Oldbury man showing he enlisted with S Staffs RFA and in May 1914 was put in S Staffs Regt and then discharged unfit in Oct 1914. Did he re-enlist without declaring previous service? There seems to be only one Enoch in the area at the time. This man was born 1889.

So I propose another possible Barnsley - Cyril Herbert. Service papers exist for him. He enlisted 6/4/1914 and was born and lived in Dudley. He enlisted into the 7th, He enlists with a declared age of 17. Docs say born 24/6/1897. Service number 2213. Later 200449. Medal Pair plus the Territorial Medal. May not have gone with battalion in March 1915 due to his age (still under 18), His records show he was called up on 5/8/1914 with the 7th. Served F&F 23-5-16 to 24-12-16 - to England with trench feet. Later served in Ireland as a PT instructor. Discharged to Z reserve 16/3/19. Sgt. Medal rolls show with 2/7th. CHB seems to have died 18/10/1936 aged just 39.

edit

This purports to be CHB from a dodgy family tree. Note the extremely narrow and sloping shoulders. 

 

Edited 11 September , 2018 by Mark1959

[Mark1959]

J. Ashman, John Ashman 481 C.S.M 1st 7th.

Papers also exist for him. Enlisted on 7/4/1908 in the 7th. Initially for 2 years but extended, His birth reg appears to be in 2Q 1871.

Discharged 12/4/16 on termination of his period of engagement. Aged about 45. Docs clearly show him going to France Folkestone to Boulogne 31/3-1/4/15 with the 7th. Came back to UK 7/4/16 for his discharge. He declines to sign to re-engage in March 1916 and is thus discharged.

He appears to die Dudley 3Q 1928 aged about 57

 

 

Edited 11 September , 2018 by Mark1959

[Mark1959]

On 08/03/2017 at 13:03, Rogueraven said:

B. Cooper, Benjamin Cooper 22788 (1743 RR 1912) Is this a reference to him being regimental reserve in 1912 on the number 1743 ? It is wrote next to his name in WW1 Service Medals and Awards Roll.

No. This a medal reference showing his medals had been returned in 1923. It is not RR but KR (Kings Regulations) 1912. Does not mean he is not in the photo merely that this is not supporting evidence.

 

There is another Benjamin Cooper. Worcester Regiment 2097 then ASC M/375335. This man was discharged due to wounds on 19/6/1919. The Silver War Badge records show he enlisted 13/11/1913 and must be considered a possibility. Pair only so no overseas service priior to the start of 1916.

edit - This man has a medical record in 1916. No 2 General Hospital Le Havre. For "Inflammation of connective tissue ankle and scabies". Shows 2 years in service. 5 months in theatre. He was there 27/6-29/6 before going to 9 Gen Hosp. He is serving with 1/7th Worcesters (A Company) at the time. His age is given as 19 which if he is the right man why he did not go abroad with the battalion in March 1915

Edited 11 September , 2018 by Mark1959

[Mark1959]

C Baker

What about Charles Baker. 2020 later 200330. Discharged due to wounds 10/5/18. Enlisted 20/5/13. Aged 22 on discharge. SWB record. Territorial Force Medal list shows him as 1/7th (on same page as CH Barnsley). Pair of medals only. So service in theatre only after start of 1916. Corporal. Age again reason for not to France March 1915?

 

At the moment I cannot find a suitable candidate for either of the Collins. 

 

Richard Greenfield 2215 appears on the War Office wounded list on 2/1/16 - serving with 7th. Showing as Territorial Force. This wounding looks like the reason for his eventual discharge. He has a SWB. Discharged due to wounds 3/8/16. The SWB ledger gives an enlistment date of 6/4/14 (same day as CH Barnsley) and also shows 7th Bn. His entry date is 25/6/15. 

Edited 12 September , 2018 by Mark1959

[AdrianC]

Original photograph - Private 1675 Joseph Cartwright k.in a. 21st July 1916 1st/7th Worcestershire Regiment

[Rogueraven]

Just an update, I don't plan to resurrect the post, but to offer my conclusions from all those years ago and a bit of history.

Decided to locate the full article on Tuesday after AdrianC contacted me about original photo. It is a magnificent photo and I'll get it added to Dudley Archives online library next week.  The full article can be found in Dudley Herald newspaper 1st August 1964, page 6.   

I have also included my list of probables for those in the photo, based on the research and responses here 7 years ago...  I say probables, because we can not say with any real certainty for most. 

The photo from the newspaper article was handed to me around 7 years ago, or more according to this post, I didn't think it was that long ago...  This is around the time I first took a real interest researching World War One, transferring my family history research skills over to a project called the Lost and the Living based at Dudley Archives, I was doing family history studies at the time and was approached to join this new project. We did spend a short time looking for the original article back then, but some reason due to commitments to research for a First World War exhibition this little research exercise was concluded and the list of probable people in the photograph was filed without the full article, or any write up.

I still research World War One at Dudley Archives and are currently working on Dudley Volunteer Training Corps and 1st Bn, Worcestershire Volunteer Training Corps, having just completed a War Widows List and write up covering the war widows invited to the opening of Dudley Town Hall and War Memorial and the husbands they lost. I always find it strange how the full article for this photograph from 1964 lists names linked directly to the V.T.C.  H.Newey being a relative of the H.J.Newey commander of the Dudley V.T.C. The Mayor who joined an lead 3rd Platoon of the D.V.T.C sometimes after 1916. it is these little coincidences that makes things interesting.