susancammas Posted 9 February , 2017 Share Posted 9 February , 2017 Good afternoon I have been working on and off for quite a while on my Grandfather’s biography. I came up against a stumbling block several months ago concerning his service in Mesopotamia during WWI. In spite of information on his index card, which stated he was in Mesopotamia (as a Lt.), and a huge amount of help and suggestions from members, I was never able to find him in any war diaries. One of the main problems seemed to be the unit he was transferred to. Top half of his “Index Card” (paragraph 11): Today, I have been revisiting his file and noticed the following at the bottom of his “index card”(paragraph 12): Would it be safe to say that “June 16” and “Aug 16” refer to June to August 1916? This would mean 2 months to recover from colitis. (I suppose in those days that must have been the norm.) Incidentally, the page I received (from Glasgow) was cropped on the right just like above. He was signed off fit for work on August (19)16. If this really was the case, the plot thickens because he was supposed to be in Mesopotamia (top half of same document) but in fact, was in Poona (India)! Can anybody throw any light on this mystery? Many thanks Susan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susancammas Posted 9 February , 2017 Author Share Posted 9 February , 2017 Here are the documents I should have attached: CJT bottom of Servcice record sheet.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 9 February , 2017 Admin Share Posted 9 February , 2017 (edited) We've all done that! There's no real mystery, the Base Depots and Hospitals/rest camps for The Mesopotamia Campaign were in India. Men were evacuated from Basra, the usual route was to Bombay (Mumbai) on the West Coast. Then in his case on to Poona. Taken off the strength of his unit when evacuated he probably went back to the base depot to await another posting, which appears to be 134 Brigade in September. Not sure where that is on the document you posted. The war diary for 134 Brigade RFA is at TNA http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/3d4538ecd68f4a858d2300a0eb2a959f For 30 Brigade http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/c105237de0f54c829da0c74c66ab1b59 8 Brigade (France) is on Ancestry if you subscribe Here or at TNA 131 Brigade is odd as it shows France to June 1916 whereas he supposedly went to Mesopotamia with them in December 1915. It has not been digitised but fwiw this is the link to TNA http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7355876 I can't see any other diary for this unit at TNA Ken Edited 9 February , 2017 by kenf48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 9 February , 2017 Admin Share Posted 9 February , 2017 Was his name Hatcher? Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susancammas Posted 9 February , 2017 Author Share Posted 9 February , 2017 Hi Ken - thanks for all this useful information. I suppose they travelled from Basra to Bombay by sea? Just one thing - what have we all done??? Susan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susancammas Posted 9 February , 2017 Author Share Posted 9 February , 2017 2 hours ago, kenf48 said: Was his name Hatcher? Ken 2 hours ago, kenf48 said: Was his name Hatcher? Ken Hi Ken - I'm not very good at finding my way round this forum. I thought my previous comment had been sent a few hours ago! To answer your latest question: No, not Hatcher. His name was Charles John Troke Johnston - RHA . Regards Susan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 9 February , 2017 Admin Share Posted 9 February , 2017 1 hour ago, susancammas said: Hi Ken - thanks for all this useful information. I suppose they travelled from Basra to Bombay by sea? Just one thing - what have we all done??? Susan Yes, there were Hospitals in theatre but they were often overwhelmed so if fit enough sick and wounded would be put on a hospital ship which ran a regular shuttle from the Persian Gulf and across the Arabian Sea. sorry, I thought you had posted without the attachment, we've all done that. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susancammas Posted 10 February , 2017 Author Share Posted 10 February , 2017 Hi Ken - thanks for all this useful information. I suppose they travelled from Basra to Bombay by sea? Just one thing - what have we all done??? Susan 9 hours ago, kenf48 said: Yes, there were Hospitals in theatre but they were often overwhelmed so if fit enough sick and wounded would be put on a hospital ship which ran a regular shuttle from the Persian Gulf and across the Arabian Sea. sorry, I thought you had posted without the attachment, we've all done that. Ken Thanks Ken for the info on hospital ships. Re attachements - I always have trouble attaching them.(pbs re size mostly) (In fact, I have a lot of trouble in general with this website since they reorganised it) BUT, that being said, the exchanges with forum members are fantastic. Susan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susancammas Posted 10 September , 2017 Author Share Posted 10 September , 2017 Good evening Ken I have been looking again at my grandfather's story an wondered whether you, or any other kind forum member, might be able to interpret the information I find at the bottom of his service sheet. I don't understand what is written in the columns: "Finding of Medical Board" (what do the initials mean?) and "Place where held and Authority" he was sent to Poona, but what is written underneath that? the "authority's" name?) Previously you mentioned a hospital ship - was there only one? I have found a War Diary for a ship Varela covering the period my GF would have been sent to Poona, but unfortunately the names of the sick and wounded are not listed. Kind regards Susan 59b581971cd14_CJTbottomofServcicerecordsheet.pdf CJT bottom of Servcice record sheet.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 10 September , 2017 Share Posted 10 September , 2017 The 'CI' is the fitness class C1. He was then found fit for 'General Service'. http://www.epsomandewellhistoryexplorer.org.uk/MedicalCategories.html Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 10 September , 2017 Share Posted 10 September , 2017 (edited) Dear Susan, Why not ask Glasgow to do another copy of that page in his Officers papers, but this time not cropped! (I had a similar case with one page of my father's Australian Imperial Force papers: and got a perfect copy second time around, showing extra detail.) Keep up the good work. Kindest regards, Kim. Edited 10 September , 2017 by Kimberley John Lindsay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 10 September , 2017 Admin Share Posted 10 September , 2017 2 hours ago, ss002d6252 said: The 'CI' is the fitness class C1. He was then found fit for 'General Service'. http://www.epsomandewellhistoryexplorer.org.uk/MedicalCategories.html Craig As he still appears to be suffering from colitis could not the note be fit for Garrison Service. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 10 September , 2017 Share Posted 10 September , 2017 Just now, kenf48 said: As he still appears to be suffering from colitis could not the note be fit for Garrison Service. Ken Possibly Ken, that could make sense. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susancammas Posted 12 September , 2017 Author Share Posted 12 September , 2017 Thank you everyone! Susan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 12 September , 2017 Share Posted 12 September , 2017 Medical classification C1, from early 1916 onwards, was "fit for service at home", which presumably would have included service in India but might have debarred him from returning to Mesopotamia. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susancammas Posted 31 December , 2017 Author Share Posted 31 December , 2017 Good morning I have had a good look around internet and I know there were at least 4 hospital ships rotating between Basrah and Bombay in 1916. Is there any way I can find out more details about my grandfather's transfer by hospital ship from Basrah to Poona presumably via Bombay? All I have to go on is the very limited information (sick in Poona from June to August 16) available on his service sheet. Are there any lists of sick/wounded officers evacuated? Perhaps from hospital ship logs - or medical lists??? I'd be grateful for any help - I just need a nudge in the right direction! I wish you all a HAPPY AND PEACEFUL 2018. Susan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 13 January , 2018 Share Posted 13 January , 2018 On 10/09/2017 at 20:32, susancammas said: but what is written underneath that? just to note that is Ootacamund or 'Ooty' as it was familiarly known. A hill station in Southern India, good for recupperation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susancammas Posted 13 January , 2018 Author Share Posted 13 January , 2018 a very belated thanks Charlie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 21 January , 2018 Share Posted 21 January , 2018 Susan, You've a variety of hares running but this seems the best for the following- Did you ever follow up the links in Ken's post 3 above? The 30Bde War Diary starts after your GF was posted there but it does have a monthly roll of Officers and shows your GF was Capt (thus i/c) 30 Bde Ammunition Column certainly from Dec 1917 (start of this Diary) until December 1918 at which point he drops off having been on UK leave since Oct 1917. Here is Dec1917: And here he goes on leave, Oct 1917: But before that there seems to be a gap?? I note that the 134 Bde WD has a Capt Johnstone GH which is not to be confused with your GF Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susancammas Posted 22 January , 2018 Author Share Posted 22 January , 2018 Good evening Charlie and Ken Thanks for your help! Yes, I did check out the info Ken supplied and in fact, I’ve been beavering away, unfortunately without much success, as follows: WO 95/1642 (France) - no mention WO 95/1527 (France) Lt. C. J. T. mentioned on page 490 – “slightly wounded” WO 95/3801 not really relevant 131 Brigade was in France whereasmy GF’s service notes show him as on his way to Mesop. WO 95/5078-1 + 4 (Mesop) no mention WO 95/5077 (Mesop) possible reference: “23rd January 1916 60th battery AC arrived in camp ex ss Melville” but GF not mentioned WO 95/5133 (Mesop) no mention WO 95/5169 (Mesop) GF was in Sharoban from (at least) December 1917 – possibly earlier (In charge of the AC, as you pointed out Charlie). (The G. H. Johnstone is another person) I can’t see where to look next. Which diaries are the ammunition columns recorded in? I’ve had a look at the details of WO 95/5078 and wonder whether it’s worth ordering any of the following: WO 95/5078/1 1916 May - 1917 June Corps Troops: 134 Brigade Royal Field Artillery (already have) WO 95/5078/2 1917 Sept - 1917 Dec Corps Troops: Headquarters Siege Artillery Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery WO 95/5078/3 1916 May - 1916 Oct Corps Troops: 5' Howizter Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery WO 95/5078/4 1915 Dec - 1916 May Corps Troops: 5' Howizter Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery (already have) WO 95/5078/5 1916 Mar - 1917 Feb Corps Troops: 74 Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery WO 95/5078/6 1916 Mar - 1916 Dec Corps Troops: 74 Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery WO 95/5078/7 1917 Jan - 1917 Feb Corps Troops: 136 Trench Mortar Battery WO 95/5078/8 1916 Nov - 1917 Mar Corps Troops: 137 Trench Mortar Battery WO 95/5078/9 1917 Jan - 1917 Apr Corps Troops: 138 Trench Mortar Battery WO 95/5078/10 1915 May - 1916 Nov Corps Troops: Corps Ammunition Barges WO 95/5078/11 1915 Nov - 1916 June Corps Troops: 13 Field Company Sappers and Miners Possibly 5 or 6 or 10 – what do you think? I might just have to call it a day. Kind regards Susan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 22 January , 2018 Share Posted 22 January , 2018 Susan, it isn't worth ordering these. Your grandfather was in the Brigade Ammuntion Column, under various descriptions, from France to Mespot but these fail to get mentioned in any War Diary. Yes, do call it a day as your questions have been answered at best as possible under the circumstances. He was a good man but has sadly eluded full documentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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