Andrew Upton Posted 11 December , 2004 Share Posted 11 December , 2004 Yesterday I managed to pick up a nice pair of the British folding pattern wire cutters for £8 from a reclamation yard in Glastonbury. However, the only markings they display are two small broad arrows (one to each side of the cutters) and the makers name Wolseley. My questions are: Are all undated examples post WW1 (ie WW2) in date? If not, is it possible to date them from the makers mark? Was there any change in the pattern of the webbing holder for the cutters between WW1 and WW2, or is it possible to use a WW2 made holder with my WW1 webbing? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 11 December , 2004 Share Posted 11 December , 2004 I believe the Somme Heritage Centre (check website for contacts) have these plus an instruction booklet, original pouch?? Curator is called Craig McGookin - my spelling may be wrong, but that's how it is pronounced. He may be of help? Des Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 12 December , 2004 Share Posted 12 December , 2004 Andrew, I have had quite a few pairs of these over the years including some of Wolseley manufacture, nearly all came from the Western Front area. IIRC most were clearly dated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 13 December , 2004 Author Share Posted 13 December , 2004 Desmond7: Email sent on Saturday, but still no reply, so I guess Craig McGookin couldn't help me! Giles Poilu: So even an undated pair could still be WW1? That's good news! I've had a closer look at the "Wolseley" stamp (as its been rather faintly done, and not helped by 60+ years of use and poor storage) and there might just be the faintest traces of the number "6" below this, which could be the remains of a 1916 date. However, I thought that this pattern was introduced in 1917? Does anyone know exactly when this pattern of wire cutters was approved and when it became obsolete? I still need to know if there was any change in the pattern of the webbing holder for the cutters between WW1 and WW2, because if there was no change, I'll buy a cheaper WW2 holder for reenactment, rather than an expensive original WW1 holder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 13 December , 2004 Share Posted 13 December , 2004 Andrew, if they have a light surface rusting you will be amazed what a light scrub with a nylon pot scourer and WD40 will reveal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 13 December , 2004 Share Posted 13 December , 2004 Andrew can the 6 of 1916 be a faded 8 ??? so that it is 1918 ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 13 December , 2004 Share Posted 13 December , 2004 Andrew, I am presuming these are the folding pattern with the 3-way head? I have just looked back on old photos of various ones I have sold over the years. With the exact same pattern I had 6 different manufacturers including Wolseley, Wynn & Timming, Chaterlea and Plumpton. Dates were various from 1914 to 1918. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 13 December , 2004 Share Posted 13 December , 2004 Another: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 13 December , 2004 Share Posted 13 December , 2004 Again: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 13 December , 2004 Share Posted 13 December , 2004 Once more: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 13 December , 2004 Share Posted 13 December , 2004 And the same pair: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 13 December , 2004 Share Posted 13 December , 2004 These aren't the folding ones.... this is: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 13 December , 2004 Share Posted 13 December , 2004 and this is the carrier: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 13 December , 2004 Share Posted 13 December , 2004 Was there any change in the pattern of the webbing holder for the cutters between WW1 and WW2, or is it possible to use a WW2 made holder with my WW1 webbing? Sorry i didn't respond earlier... Yes you can use it. I have 2 WW1 holders, but i am using a WW2 one. The WW2 one is about 1/2 inch shorter, but it goes perfect. My wire cutters for liv. His. is 1918 dated and it fits well. Andrew, in what group are you? PM me if you need more stuff, i have a few nice things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 13 December , 2004 Share Posted 13 December , 2004 Ahhh! Wondered who would be the first to spot my deliberate mistake... I'll leave the other pics up for anyone interested. Sorry, I have not handled any for a while and got a little forgetful there. Here are some pictures of the correct folding type - I have seen quite a few of these too over the years but I cannot remember the earliest date, these are a 1917 pair: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 13 December , 2004 Share Posted 13 December , 2004 Name and 1917 date: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 13 December , 2004 Share Posted 13 December , 2004 And ready for use: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 13 December , 2004 Share Posted 13 December , 2004 and they do the job well! i used them several times in action, they work excellent! You don't need much power to cut barb wire with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 14 December , 2004 Author Share Posted 14 December , 2004 Giles Poilu: Kristof is quite correct in that my cutters are not the three way variety! Regarding cleaning them, mine look no-where near as nice as those in the picture you posted, as the dark patina that covers mine has built up over cleaned-up pitting. Bizarely, the only light rust that remains on them sugests that whoever used them last had them stored in a half open manner, the tips of the arms being level with the ends of the jaws, rather like they had been used in a garage or workshop and hung on the wall ready to be used. The photo you posted with the 1915 dated Wolseley cutters is very interesting to me - the 5 of 1915 is placed underneath and between the E and the L of WOLSELEY - which is exactly the place where my faded number 6 is! The more I look at it under a magnifying glass, the more I'm convinced it is a 6. Maybe the workman with the 1916 stamp just had an off moment, and held the punch at a funny angle, so only the 6 came out clearly? If this is 1916, then it does make it the earliest dated pair of folding wire cutters that I've seen, all others being 1917 or later. Kristof: I am a member of the Vickers Machine Gun/Gunners Society 1914-45 (VMGS or Vickers for short), a rather odd name as we actually cover the history of the machine gun from the Boer War to the 1950's, but mainly concentrate on the Vickers and other guns in WW1 and WW2. If you have a spare WW1 or WW2 holder for the wire cutters, any MGC or gas mask relics from the battlefield, or similar, then I am very interested. Thanks once again to everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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