Train Journey from Le Havre to Le Cateau WW1

[Paddy Jackson]

Having just found out about the rest camps at Le Havre I am now looking for more information about the train journey undertaken at the outbreak of war in August 1914 by the BEF via the Le Havre route.  I am following the route taken by 1st Bn Cheshire Regiment which one account describes via Rouen, Amiens before eventually detraining at Le Cateau. Not sure how many other Regiments were mobilsed by this route. I am looking for any accounts of the journey (not just by the Cheshires), diary accounts, the stops along the way, and particularly any photos of the various stations. Hopefully building up an interesting picture of what the journey was like.

[Hereford Horseman]

It is certainly covered (though not in detail) in Philip Tardif's book about the North Irish Horse:

 

http://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/The-North-Irish-Horse-in-the-Great-War-Hardback/p/10803

 

HH

[Paddy Jackson]

Thanks will get a copy. Looks a really interesting read regardless!

[steve fuller]

Don't know if this will help directly as I am unsure whether the Bedfordshires and Cheshires (same Brigade) were on the same train.

 

The 1st Bedfordshires boarded carriages and cattle trucks around 5 a.m. on 18 August, passed through Rouen (no stop mentioned) and after a 12 hour ride there was a 20 minute pause at Arras (where they heard of Grierson's death). Arrived at Le Cateau late on 18 August and marched to Pommereuil, around 4km away.

 

Letters mention the usual unscheduled pauses on such train journey's although no locations, purely mention of men jumping off for nature's call and a few having to rejoin trucks further down the train when they were caught out.

[Paddy Jackson]

2 hours ago, steve fuller said:

Don't know if this will help directly as I am unsure whether the Bedfordshires and Cheshires (same Brigade) were on the same train.

 

The 1st Bedfordshires boarded carriages and cattle trucks around 5 a.m. on 18 August, passed through Rouen (no stop mentioned) and after a 12 hour ride there was a 20 minute pause at Arras (where they heard of Grierson's death). Arrived at Le Cateau late on 18 August and marched to Pommereuil, around 4km away.

 

Letters mention the usual unscheduled pauses on such train journey's although no locations, purely mention of men jumping off for nature's call and a few having to rejoin trucks further down the train when they were caught out.

Thanks for that Steve

They could well have been on the same train as one account in the book 'The Cheshire Regiment and its miniature Colour at Mons' says the Cheshires departed Le Havre at 5am on the 18th August. (kind of confirmed in war diary). No mention of Arras however though they detrained also at Le Cateau and marched to Pommereuil. Could you have meant Amiens not Arras. I say this becuase the Cheshires account mentions stops at Busigny and Bohain which are both on a route approaching Le Cateau from the South. Perhaps you could check your source on this. It is equally possible they were on different trains as a battalion of some 900 men and their gear would surely have been a lot for one train  and the French railways were probably using every available route.

I would be very keen to know more of what is in the letters and things such as the incidental stops you mention.  All adds colour and flavour to the journey.  These personal accounts are precisely the sought of things that interest me. We could talk or meet up if that helps I am near Northampton.

Paddy

 

[steve fuller]

1 minute ago, Paddy Jackson said:

Thanks for that Steve

They could well have been on the same train as one account in the book 'The Cheshire Regiment and its miniature Colour at Mons' says the Cheshires departed Le Havre at 5am on the 18th August. (kind of confirmed in war diary). No mention of Arras however though they detrained also at Le Cateau and marched to Pommereuil. Could you have meant Amiens not Arras. I say this becuase the Cheshires account mentions stops at Busigny and Bohain which are both on a route approaching Le Cateau from the South. Perhaps you could check your source on this. It is equally possible they were on different trains as a battalion of some 900 men and their gear would surely have been a lot for one train  and the French railways were probably using every available route.

I would be very keen to know more of what is in the letters and things such as the incidental stops you mention.  All adds colour and flavour to the journey.  These personal accounts are precisely the sought of things that interest me. We could talk or meet up if that helps I am near Northampton.

Paddy

 

Hi Paddy

 

It was a fair few years ago that I read and used the information so the memory is a little rusty and am not near my files so cannot confirm at the moment - I think Arras came from a personal memoir (an officer if memory serves) so it could easily be Amiens as it was unfamiliar country to them at the time of course, so mistakes were likely .

 

The stops you mention sound probable based on the line, but they were not mentioned by name in anything I read, or it would have been built into the book as I was looking for detail like that given how many queries I have fielded from my website asking for such detail so people can follow the route!

 

Also from memory but I recall reading that the troop trains of August 1914 were very long, mostly open cattle trucks which could fit a lot of soldiers per cart (25 or 50 rings a vague bell but hopefully someone with facts to offer will clarify). They were certainly capable of moving more than a single battalion though. That said, whether they were on the same train or simply the same line, I cannot say either way with certainty.

 

Steve

[R.J.S.]

See "Clap your Hands for Daddy" which follows 3rd Coldstream (4th Guards' Brigade, 2nd Div, I Corps) from Chelsea Barracks to la Cour de Soupir, via le Havre.

Cheers,

Robin

[Paddy Jackson]

Thanks Robin for the heads up on this.  Looks interesting! Hoping to do the journey next year and trying to get as much background as possible.

[Coldstreamer]

I was under the impression cyhfd was part  fictional ? 

[lostinspace]

It is part fictional, might be worth a look though  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Clap-Your-Hands-Daddy-Stewart/dp/0993206700   

[Coldstreamer]

Thanks for replying. Shame,  I like books for reference purposes and this will just blur things. 

Edited 24 August , 2017 by Coldstreamer

[Conor]

On 05/01/2017 at 17:27, steve fuller said:

Don't know if this will help directly as I am unsure whether the Bedfordshires and Cheshires (same Brigade) were on the same train.

 

The 1st Bedfordshires boarded carriages and cattle trucks around 5 a.m. on 18 August, passed through Rouen (no stop mentioned) and after a 12 hour ride there was a 20 minute pause at Arras (where they heard of Grierson's death). Arrived at Le Cateau late on 18 August and marched to Pommereuil, around 4km away.

 

Letters mention the usual unscheduled pauses on such train journey's although no locations, purely mention of men jumping off for nature's call and a few having to rejoin trucks further down the train when they were caught out.

This is a bit of an old thread bit I'm also researching the 1st Cheshires. I'm wondering if you could direct me to the where abouts of any letters which describe the conditions on the trains? Are they on the website you provided?

 

Kind regards,

Conor