derekb Posted 1 March , 2017 Share Posted 1 March , 2017 For what it's worth, many years ago I obtained some medals from the estate of the soldiers only and most direct descendant's estate, whom I was informed by the executor hadn't had any contact with the more distant relatives ever, nor them with the descendant when she was alive. When I bought the medals at auction I paid well more than their value at the time for the only reason I can think of was that they wouldn't go to a dealer if I got them I bought the group via a telephone bid and when I picked them up the auctioneer said to me, "I'm glad you got these medals because your not a dealer and they are safe now", he had been moved by the deceased descendants story - how right he was they are safe with me. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Strawbridge Posted 2 March , 2017 Share Posted 2 March , 2017 Not sure what the concern was here. Even if a dealer bought them it is very unlikely that they would go into a melting pot. The dealer would have just sold them on to a collector who would cherish them just as much as you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekb Posted 13 March , 2017 Share Posted 13 March , 2017 There wasn't a profit motive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted 14 March , 2017 Share Posted 14 March , 2017 thing is , now everyone has access to the auction site we all know , they see what people will pay so expect theirs to get that. In recently bid on a death penny which the auction house has a reserve of £30-40 on. I thought 80 was safe enough but got beaten to 85. in the olden days silver BWM's might have been collected to melt but, as there are quite a few appearing many in large groups, it would seem this didn't happen probably hedging their bets on prices rising. my first trio and plaque cost £15 in 1974, today probably around £350 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 15 March , 2017 Share Posted 15 March , 2017 (edited) Not everyone is a fan of eBay! I purchased a plaque for £40 at the weekend from a house clearance/ junk shop, found in a chest of drawers the day before, and not yet on display. Don't ask, don't get! ? He was more than aware of the B.I.N prices asked on eBay, he was also aware of their costs and vague listing rules, not to mention time wasters. Cash is king. BWM's. - just recently I've seen two large lots of damaged B.W.M's, mostly missing suspenders. Edited 15 March , 2017 by GWF1967 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 15 March , 2017 Share Posted 15 March , 2017 No doubt another sad consequence of the popularity of tights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 15 March , 2017 Share Posted 15 March , 2017 29 minutes ago, GWF1967 said: BWM's. - just recently I've seen two large lots of damaged B.W.M's, mostly missing suspenders. The disc of a BWM is .925 sterling silver, the suspender is made from lower grade silver to give it strength. Thus it's quite common for the suspenders to be removed so the weight/value of a group is purely in .925 silver terms... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 15 March , 2017 Share Posted 15 March , 2017 3 hours ago, Andrew Upton said: The disc of a BWM is .925 sterling silver, the suspender is made from lower grade silver to give it strength. Thus it's quite common for the suspenders to be removed so the weight/value of a group is purely in .925 silver terms... Thanks for the information Andrew. I had an inkling the suspenders were removed rather than broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 15 March , 2017 Share Posted 15 March , 2017 3 hours ago, GWF1967 said: Not everyone is a fan of eBay! I purchased a plaque for £40 at the weekend from a house clearance/ junk shop, found in a chest of drawers the day before, and not yet on display. Don't ask, don't get! ? He was more than aware of the B.I.N prices asked on eBay, he was also aware of their costs and vague listing rules, not to mention time wasters. Cash is king. BWM's. - just recently I've seen two large lots of damaged B.W.M's, mostly missing suspenders. Very well done. Can you reveal the name on the plaque? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 15 March , 2017 Share Posted 15 March , 2017 9 minutes ago, Old Owl said: Very well done. Can you reveal the name on the plaque? Harry Dyer. SDGW has 9 men of that name. 9 stories to research. It has a couple of dinks around the edge. Nice patination, not overly loved. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 15 March , 2017 Share Posted 15 March , 2017 1 minute ago, GWF1967 said: Harry Dyer. SDGW has 9 men of that name. 9 stories to research. It has a couple of dinks around the edge. Nice patination, not overly loved. . Many thanks GWF--not bad for the price and lots of possibilities. Had it been to one 'Harry Frank Dyer' then you may have had a fight on your hands! Cheers, Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 16 March , 2017 Share Posted 16 March , 2017 12 hours ago, GWF1967 said: Harry Dyer. SDGW has 9 men of that name. 9 stories to research. It has a couple of dinks around the edge. Nice patination, not overly loved. . Still, nice to have and to care for it... One slight possibity to help in researching is the location where you brought it, given how it was found in a house clearance, as one suspects that these things would not usually travel to far from their place of 'origin' and so the man's hometown. But, there again, I bought in Ankara a plaque that commeorates either a Sussex or an Australian man...!!! I don't know a lot about these things but this looks to be one of the broad 'H' ones, one of those made after they had altered the original die to allow for "SHE DIED..." and then changed it back to "HE DIED...", with the 'H' being broader to fill the space. BUT, I am perfectly happy to be corrected on this! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 16 March , 2017 Share Posted 16 March , 2017 3 hours ago, trajan said: Still, nice to have and to care for it... One slight possibity to help in researching is the location where you brought it, given how it was found in a house clearance, as one suspects that these things would not usually travel to far from their place of 'origin' and so the man's hometown. But, there again, I bought in Ankara a plaque that commeorates either a Sussex or an Australian man...!!! I don't know a lot about these things but this looks to be one of the broad 'H' ones, one of those made after they had altered the original die to allow for "SHE DIED..." and then changed it back to "HE DIED...", with the 'H' being broader to fill the space. BUT, I am perfectly happy to be corrected on this! Trajan Thanks Trajan. I hadn't noticed the size of the H. I have medals, photo's etc, bought locally in Mid Wales, that have come from Kent all the way up to Orkney. I'll certainly look out for a Shropshire connection when I research the name further though! The last plaque I bought in Oswestry had travelled at glacial speeds: 15 miles in 101 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 16 March , 2017 Share Posted 16 March , 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, trajan said: I don't know a lot about these things but this looks to be one of the broad 'H' ones, one of those made after they had altered the original die to allow for "SHE DIED..." and then changed it back to "HE DIED...", with the 'H' being broader to fill the space. BUT, I am perfectly happy to be corrected on this! Wrong way round Trojan - the only die that was altered was the purpose made She died one after production of female plaques finished (with the S removed, hence the narrow H) so that it could also be used in the production of male casualty plaques. Edited 16 March , 2017 by Andrew Upton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 16 March , 2017 Share Posted 16 March , 2017 15 minutes ago, Andrew Upton said: die that was altered Andrew, Was the work done so perfectly that there is no sign on the plaques? Kath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 16 March , 2017 Share Posted 16 March , 2017 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Kath said: Andrew, Was the work done so perfectly that there is no sign on the plaques? Kath. Apart from the obviously narrower H, apparently not. Just dug this off the web, there are the most minimal signs of the alteration, but you have to be looking for them to see them: Edited 16 March , 2017 by Andrew Upton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDWARD1 Posted 16 March , 2017 Share Posted 16 March , 2017 It has been said that on the "SHE" plaques (with the narrow H) the "S" of SHE appears chunkier. The pictured plaque should have a combined W and A in a circle on the reverse for Woolwich Arsenal and you can see the workers number (34) between the rear leg and tall of the lion. Eddie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medaler Posted 16 March , 2017 Share Posted 16 March , 2017 Ref "Harry Dyer" Vs "Harry Frank Dyer" - Is it known that a plaque for the latter actually ever existed? The only reason I mention this is that I believe that the families gave the details of how they wanted the name to appear. It is therefore possible that they simply asked for "Harry Dyer". It is also possible that (using new knowledge gained on here) they never even applied for one. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 16 March , 2017 Share Posted 16 March , 2017 1 hour ago, EDWARD1 said: It has been said that on the "SHE" plaques (with the narrow H) the "S" of SHE appears chunkier. The pictured plaque should have a combined W and A in a circle on the reverse for Woolwich Arsenal and you can see the workers number (34) between the rear leg and tall of the lion. Eddie Thanks Eddie, I was aware of the position of the die number but had never noticed the back stamp. I had to dig out four plaques before finding a clear example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 16 March , 2017 Share Posted 16 March , 2017 2 minutes ago, Medaler said: Ref "Harry Dyer" Vs "Harry Frank Dyer" - Is it known that a plaque for the latter actually ever existed? The only reason I mention this is that I believe that the families gave the details of how they wanted the name to appear. It is therefore possible that they simply asked for "Harry Dyer". It is also possible that (using new knowledge gained on here) they never even applied for one. Mike Would it follow that the plaque would bear the same name as the headstone/monument/CWGC listing; all as per family wishes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medaler Posted 16 March , 2017 Share Posted 16 March , 2017 Just now, GWF1967 said: Would it follow that the plaque would bear the same name as the headstone/monument/CWGC listing; all as per family wishes? Good point - but it could depend on who in the family did the picking. The application for the Plaque and Scroll was certainly a different bit of paper to the one filled out for the (then) IWGC. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 16 March , 2017 Share Posted 16 March , 2017 1 minute ago, Medaler said: Good point - but it could depend on who in the family did the picking. The application for the Plaque and Scroll was certainly a different bit of paper to the one filled out for the (then) IWGC. Mike Likewise- Good point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 16 March , 2017 Share Posted 16 March , 2017 Thanks, Andrew. Something else to look out for! Kath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medaler Posted 16 March , 2017 Share Posted 16 March , 2017 1 minute ago, GWF1967 said: Likewise- Good point! Wouldn't it be smashing if all the application forms for Plaques magically "turned up" somewhere? I am the custodian of a plaque named to "Fred Walker" (I don't own it - long story) - and we know that he was known elsewhere as "Wilfred Walker" - his medals would have been named to "W. Walker" - Try selling them on Ebay as "trio and plaque" - even though they would be genuine!!!!! All part of the fun! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 17 March , 2017 Share Posted 17 March , 2017 11 hours ago, Andrew Upton said: Wrong way round Trojan - the only die that was altered was the purpose made She died one after production of female plaques finished (with the S removed, hence the narrow H) so that it could also be used in the production of male casualty plaques. Thankee, Trajan (not to be confused with Trojan as in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trojan_(brand) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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