Acknown Posted 12 December , 2016 Share Posted 12 December , 2016 I'm attempting to find the service identity of Thomas Duggan, who appears on the Whitsbury, Hampshire WW1 Roll of Honour. There are two Duggans on the Roll and the other, William George, survived the war. Whitsbury is a small village and Duggan is not a traditional local surname. I assume that the two men were relatives, recently arrived there and possibly brothers. One Patrick Duggan, aged 58, his wife Mary Ann (possibly nee Harris) and son William George aged 17, were living at Scotland Down Farm, Whitsbury in 1911, not far from Mary Ann’s birthplace at Downton in Wiltshire. Patrick was living ‘on his own means’ but it appears that he originated from County Tipperary, Ireland, and had been a regular soldier in the ASC. In 1891 he had been based in Aldershot with his wife Mary Ann and six children. In 1901, the family was back in Ireland and living in Garryowen Villas, Tipperary, where Patrick was a ‘barrack labourer’, with the three younger children including a William George who had been born in Aldershot, and a Thomas, aged 5 (b.1896?), who was born in Tipperary. In 1911, there is no Thomas on the 1911 Whitsbury census, but a Thomas Duggan, who was born in Ballypatrick, Tipperary in 1896, appears as a Boy Soldier in the ASC, housed in Buller Barracks, Aldershot. It seems likely that this is Patrick’s son. It is hard to identify Thomas’s military service, but the following evidence seems persuasive given his Irish birthplace, his father’s ASC service and perhaps his own service in Aldershot. The personal effects of a Thomas Duggan of the Royal Irish Regiment (RIR), posted to 1/18th Londons and killed in 1918, were sent to his mother inscribed as ‘Mary A.’. As an aside, this indicates that Patrick may have died between 1911 and 1918, but I can't find his death certificate. In addition, the Service Medal Roll records this soldier as having started his service in the ASC. If this is our man, we can assume that Thomas was a regular soldier and served from before the war, first in the ASC, then in the RIR and thereafter attached to 1/18th Londons, in which he was killed in 1918. He is interred in the Senlis Communal Cemetery Extension near Arras (Grave Reference I.D.5), which I visited yesterday. If this is the man I think is the Whitsbury Thomas Duggan, he would have been aged about 22. As a final aside, a Pte William George Duggan served as M/372317 in the ASC. More 'evidence'? Thomas's surviving brother? If anyone can add to or detract from this appreciation, I would be hugely grateful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 12 December , 2016 Share Posted 12 December , 2016 Lived at Farnborough, Hamps. Enlisted at Aldershot, Killed in action. http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/599414/DUGGAN, T William enlisted in Belfast, and lived at Clonmel. Killed in action. http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/1580241/DUGGAN, WILLIAM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acknown Posted 12 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 12 December , 2016 Museumton, many thanks. The first link is indeed the Thomas I think he is, but where did you get the Farnborough/Aldershot information? The second link is not our William who certainly survived the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 12 December , 2016 Share Posted 12 December , 2016 (edited) If you run the War Gratuity of pounds21-10-00 through Craig's Calculator you get an enlistment date of Aug 1914 or earlier. So fits with him being Army pre-war. Charlie ps Ancestry have a public tree showing Thomas Duggan and showing William George Duggan with WW2 military service Australia. Edited 12 December , 2016 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acknown Posted 12 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 12 December , 2016 Charlie - Many thanks. Now why didn't I do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 12 December , 2016 Share Posted 12 December , 2016 (edited) Quote Museumton, many thanks. The first link is indeed the Thomas I think he is, but where did you get the Farnborough/Aldershot information? The second link is not our William who certainly survived the war. Possibly 'Soldiers Died in the Great War' or the Irish memorial list. 45 minutes ago, charlie962 said: If you run the War Gratuity of pounds21-10-00 through Craig's Calculator you get an enlistment date of Aug 1914 or earlier. So fits with him being Army pre-war. Charlie Thanks - I was just going to when I saw you'd already used my Calculator. #20438 Duggan had his estate paid to his sole legatee, his mother Mary A. As it was paid to a legatee then there must be a will. It can be found here and may give some info (but they vary dramatically in content)- https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Wills?surname=duggan&yearOfDeath=1918&advancedSearch=False&IsGrantSearch=False#soldiers Craig Edited 12 December , 2016 by ss002d6252 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 12 December , 2016 Share Posted 12 December , 2016 Soldiers Died Great War shows that # 20438 Thomas was born "BALLYPATRICK, CLONMEL, CO. TIPPERARY" Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 12 December , 2016 Share Posted 12 December , 2016 The extra info is from Soldiers Died in The Great War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acknown Posted 15 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 15 December , 2016 Thanks Craig and Museumtom. I have now searched the Salisbury Journal for an obituary but no luck. I guess it will have to remain a mystery. Acknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 15 December , 2016 Share Posted 15 December , 2016 Thomas' death cert details - not sure it would add anything with it being an army one. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acknown Posted 15 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 15 December , 2016 Thanks very much Craig. The key piece of the puzzle is to link him to the home address to ensure that I have the right Thomas Duggan. I'll keep going. Acknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 16 June , 2017 Share Posted 16 June , 2017 Hi Don't know if you are still on the site but my husbands g/father was William George Duggan brother of Thomas. I believe Patrick their Dad died in 1938 he was a Chelsea Pensioner. Don't know what other information you may like Regards Henny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 16 June , 2017 Share Posted 16 June , 2017 Hi Its me again. I see you are also interested in British internees in Switzerland my husbands g/uncle was interned in Leysin His name was Charles Henry Rowe. Can you help with any information on that ? Regards Henny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 16 June , 2017 Share Posted 16 June , 2017 (edited) Hello Henny, You would be better starting a new thread for him (let me know here and I will transfer this posting). But just to get you started, the ICRC site has this card for internees. I will give further explanation if you like when I have more time this evening! You are also lucky that a detailed Service Record, service number 8874 RWF, then 12869 RAMC survives for him (though damaged) and is available via FindmyPast or Ancestry. It would help to know what you know already. Born 1892 he enlisted 1905( Boy), PoW Oct 1914- Aug 1916 etc . Lots of fascinating detail in this Service Record, including where captured, the German Regiment that captured him, his wounds, medical history, family history etc I did note that he was entitled to the Silver War Badge and that after the war he served some time in the merchant navy? Charlie Edited 16 June , 2017 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acknown Posted 21 June , 2017 Author Share Posted 21 June , 2017 Henny, Greetings. I'm pretty sure I have Thomas Duggan right now, as William's brother, and have a pretty fair idea of his military service outline. Whilst I was in the Somme area last December, I visited Thomas's grave at Senlis and took a photo. I'd be happy to send you a copy by PM if you are interested. I believe William emigrated to Australia in the 1920s (an Ancestry family tree, I think). Do you agree? As you have indicated, I am interested in internees as a great uncle was interned at Murren (wounded and captured at Ypres and incarcerated at Gottingen for a year afterwards). I have his comprehensive memoir, which I am editing (at a snail's pace) for possible publication. I'm happy to answer any general questions about Swiss internees, based on his experiences, if you have them. Best wishes, Acknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acknown Posted 21 June , 2017 Author Share Posted 21 June , 2017 I should have said, more discussion about internees here: Acknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acknown Posted 22 June , 2017 Author Share Posted 22 June , 2017 ... and re-reading this, I should also have expressed pleasure at hearing from one of Thomas's relatives. Thanks Henny for getting in touch, and I would value anything else you have on Thomas or William. I would be delighted to send you the details I have on Thomas, if you would like them. Acknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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