Check Please: Whitaker, Arthur 15256: (?) Cheshire Regiment

[laughton]

I was not researching this man or regiment, thus this is a consequential find. I am recreating the database for the Nine Elms Military Cemetery to include all the UNKNOWNS as well as the KNOWNS to see if the numbers add up. This is part of our major investigation into CA40 and the missing men of the 16th Battalion Canadian Scottish - if they are actually missing. Norm Christie (aka ex-CWGC & 2nd Lt. Jack Kipling) is at the site now doing a GPR study but avoiding our questions and concerns.

 

One of your lads in the database is odd. If it is possible for someone to check this soldier. There is an Arthur Whitaker with a strange number 15256: (the colon at the end) listed on the Arras Memorial here:

 

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/777000/WHITAKER, ARTHUR

 

Similarly, there is a strange entry on the Nine Elms Military Cemetery in Plot 5 Row A Grave 10 for an UNKNOWN man with a number 15256L (the L at the end).

 

That is the only one with that number (less the last alphanumeric) that has no known grave. Normally I might think nothing of that other than the fact that the two entries BOTH have a strange ending (: and L/). See the 4th from the bottom here:

 

(I should have mentioned this is about 1500 yd east of Ecurie and 500 yards north of Roclincourt - about in the area my grandfather was with the 26th Northumberland Fusiliers on 9 April 1917 so 34th Division?). If I recall that is 17 Corps area and 51st Division as well?)

 

Edited 7 December , 2016 by laughton
I should have mentioned ..... insert

[ss002d6252]

Any additions to a service number should be as prefixes, not suffixes. Anything on the end is an error - either in typing the number up or by someone transposing a prefix. A colon would not be used in a service number but a 'L/' could be used as a prefix.

Arthur Whitaker was 15256 but is shown on some records as 9/15256 (for the 9th Bn) . His service records survives - http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=BritishArmyService&h=2079744&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=CFr619&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&rhSource=1543
 

Craig

Edited 7 December , 2016 by ss002d6252

[Phil Evans]

CWGC has his name spelt incorrectly, which doesn't help when you are looking for his MIC and service record. It is WHITTAKER and is correct on the Arras Memorial.

 

Phil

[laughton]

Do you not find it strange that both times his number appears that it has a SUFFIX?

 

I can not recall anywhere else I have seen that and now it happens twice with the same man?

[ss002d6252]

6 hours ago, laughton said:

Do you not find it strange that both times his number appears that it has a SUFFIX?

 

I can not recall anywhere else I have seen that and now it happens twice with the same man?

The record shows 'L/', this is certainly a prefix that was used. I think they've just listed a possible prefix after the number rather than before it on the form.

 

I think it's just a complete coincidence that one record has an errant colon and the other has a possible prefix written after the number.

 

Craig

[laughton]

Does anyone have information that would place a man from the Cheshire Regiment at 51b.A.23.a.6.0 slightly north of Roclincourt?

 

I can not view the Ance$try Link as my account is for Canada and does not include UK Records. However you have provided the main item that it was 9/15256. That is an obvious match so my initial presumption was that someone who checked that knew that could not be him because .... ? Not in the area ?

 

The COG-BR is date June 1919 so we can not be sure that these remains were from the action of April 1917. I could have been any time, including the 1918 Battle if Arras.

[Joseph Kerr1]

On ‎07‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 21:04, laughton said:

Nine Elms Military Cemetery

Norm Christie (aka ex-CWGC & 2nd Lt. Jack Kipling) is at the site now doing a GPR study but avoiding our questions and concerns.

 

That's very interesting! Can you possibly tell us where this information that Norm Christie or anybody else for that matter is using ground penetrating radar at nine elms military cemetery is to be found? (or any other cwgc cemetery).

thanks

J.

[John_Hartley]

I think the "L" must be an error. It is not a prefix (or suffix) generally used by the regiment, as fas as I'm aware. I think I have only ever seen "W" used - standing for "Wirral" and relating to initial recruits to the 13th Battalion.

[Muerrisch]

who is "us" please?

[Muerrisch]

Regarding the L prefix, from memory it was only used by the [mis-named!] Home Counties regiments for regular engagements, and possibly SWB srd battalion.

[laughton]

On 12/8/2016 at 06:08, laughton said:

Does anyone have information that would place a man from the Cheshire Regiment at 51b.A.23.a.6.0 slightly north of Roclincourt?

 

So the "L" and the ":" can be forgotten but could he have been there? If not then this is a closed case on that man.

 

As for the other Christie question, that is a different issue and by "site" I mean the "site of the investigation" and not a cemetery. You can't add two sentences together to imply a statement. However, we are looking at GPR at Nine Elms but we have been told that it might not be feasible because they often put I-BEAMS under the stones where there was a trench burial. The Nine Elms spreadsheet with the missing men (British and Canadians) is now here: post over pond.

 

So for this topic it is a question as to whether Arthur Whitaker was #15256 could be this man on the COG-BR?

[John_Hartley]

1st Cheshires' attack on 28/6/17 was at Oppy Wood.

[laughton]

Thanks John! That is 51b.B.18 so that is a bit of a stretch, unless he went to a rear RAP.

[Joseph Kerr1]

On ‎09‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 17:00, laughton said:

As for the other Christie question, that is a different issue and by "site" I mean the "site of the investigation" and not a cemetery. You can't add two sentences together to imply a statement. However, we are looking at GPR at Nine Elms but we have been told that it might not be feasible because they often put I-BEAMS under the stones where there was a trench burial.

 

Terribly sorry about that but when you conjoined nine elms cemetery + norm christie + ground penetrating radar in the opening post we took it that you meant that norm christie was using ground penetrating radar in nine elms cemetery. Cleary our fault for misunderstanding that when you referred to ‘the site’ after having drawn attention to nine elms cemetery you weren’t talking about nine elms cemetery but somewhere else. Anyway thanks for clarifying that it is you who is intending to instigate the use of ground penetrating radar at nine elms cemetery. Is it mr Avery and mr Andrews at cwgc who are coordinating this?

thanks

J