Information about John Evans

[Cav]

Can anybody help please. I am attempting to find some information on my grandad who I never knew for his son. Sadly he did not know much about his father as he was only 3 when he died and he would love to know whereabouts he was in the war. The only information I have found is on the medal roll. He enlisted I think in August 1914.  He has 2 corps listed firstly, 1st Cav DSC ASC rank listed as DVR which I have taken to be driver with regimental number of T/28659

 

secondly he has corps listed as R.G.A with a regimental number of 220456.

medals were. Roll RGA/230B page 13097 Victory

.                             ASC/23 page 13  medal 14 star

i would be so pleased if anybody could point me in the right direction for further research about him or specific areas where he may have served. I know the medal indicates service in France or Belgium in 1914 but wondered if there was any more specific information.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Hi cav, and welcome,

 

I've had a look at the Medal Roll Index Card (MIC) for the above soldier, and can find no unique identifier for him such as an address.

The only information on it are the ASC and RGA service numbers as you have indicated.

Can I ask how you know that this John Evans is your relative and where you obtained his service numbers?

Do you have access to his medals that confirm the link?

[Cav]

Many thanks for replying. I have the medals in my possession. The Mons star has the details engraved on the back which I have indicated. The other medal is not personalised. From the info on the medals this should be my grandfather. The medals were in his sons possession which he has passed to me to do some research on so I am as positive this is my grandad and his father.

Many thanks for your interest.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

OK Cav,

Just making sure we have the right man.

The next thing you need to do is to search for his service record on Ancestry, or FMP.

I've had a quick look on Ancestry, and regret to say that I can't immediately find a record (80% were destroyed in the blitz of 1940/41).

 

So, what I suggest, is that you post all the information you have about him here, name, address, occupation, family members etc etc.

That might enable any members to see that information, and add to it if they can.

I regret to say, that without a service record, it will be hard.

 

Having said that, it should be possible to get a war diary for the 1st Cavalry Division Divisional Supply Column.

From that, you could tell where they were, and when, but, crucially, not when John Evans was in that unit.

The RGA I'm afraid was a massive organisation and was everywhere where there was a big gun, anywhere in the world.

 

Post anything you have, it may all help.

[Phil Evans]

The 1st Cavalry Divisional Supply Column (57 Company ASC) diary is in WO 95/1107/1.

The link to it at Kew is here.

 

Phil

[KevinBattle]

Now that Dai has established you know you have the correct details, we can try and piece together something about his Army service. 

Hopefully you'll have (or will) developed some family background, parents, siblings etc etc from 1891/1901/1911 Census returns so you can provide names and Addresses that may help others crack into his story.

 

You'll probably have worked out that his initial enlistment was with the Army Service Corps and that the "T" prefix denotes a Horse Transport driver.

That makes me believe he had a good knowledge of horses, probably used to driving them as a carter or wagon driver of some type.

For what it is worth, there is one death of a man with a close Service number, but obviously just because this chap was in a specific unit is no guarantee that he knew or was in anyway involved with your grand father, except near him in the Recruiting Office queue. That may be the nearest they were!

HOWORTH, R. Rank: Driver. Service No: T/28652. Date of Death: 07/09/1915. Age: 32.
Regiment/Service: Army Service Corps 5th Res. Park 
Grave Reference: Plot B. Row 1. Grave 11. Cemetery: CALAIS SOUTHERN CEMETERY.

 

Unfortunately, no Additional Information details about address or family, so just for general information.

 

The Army Service Corps were tasked with ensuring the delivery of EVERYTHING needed at the Front.

At some stage it looks as if grandpa was transferred into the Divisional Supply Column of the RGA and would therefore have been primarily involved in ensuring ammunition and all other equipment reached whichever Batteries they supported.

 

As you'll realise that demanded a huge number of men to keep the supplies coming and his renumbering doesn't seem to help as the only near number was a Bombardier who died shortly after the Armistice in a London anti aircraft unit, so again, not likely to have any helpful connection.

 

Welcome aboard and Good Luck!

 

Do you know if there are any anecdotes, family stories, letters, how he met his wife (if post War) photographs of him in uniform or on location (too much to hope a photo with the pyramids in the background for example!) or even what he did after the War, carry on as a horseman or he may have changed to driving mechanised vehicles, so he may have bbeen traine in the Army to drive lorries etc...

 

Whatever else you can dredge up may ne the essential clue for others to help you.

[Cav]

Many thanks to you all for your input. I will look at it all tomorrow. This research is exhausting especially when you go round and round in circles! Some interesting leads to follow though. I am desperate to complete putting some information together for my uncle for Christmas so he can gain a better picture of his fathers life.

Thank you.

 

 

 

[Phil Evans]

I haven't got access to the 14 Star Rolls, but could some-one please double check the unit for me. 57 & 58 Company were MT (Mechanical Transport) but the T/ number indicates that he is Horse Transport.

 

Phil

[Stebie9173]

The page is headed 1st Cavalry Division Supply Column with 12 men on it. 9 have CMT/ prefixes varying from No. CMT/32 to CMT/2747. The other 3 are T/ prefixes:

 

T/28659 Driver J Evans

T/21420 Driver E W Smith

T/20601 Driver T Townshend

 

All the CMT/ prefixes are listed as Private; the T/ prefixes are Drivers.

 

J Evans entry states; to Theatre of War 13-8-1914; transferred to R.G.A. 11-5-1918, No. 220456.

 

The 1914 Star Roll is dated 24-8-1918, i.e. before war's end.

 

 

The BWM/VM roll shows both units T/28659 Base Details A.S.C. and 220456 R.G.A. (no unit shown). I infer from the "Base Details" part that the transfer happened in France/Flanders (or even elsewhere overseas) rather than in the UK.

 

 

 

Steve.

Edited 17 November , 2016 by Stebie9173

[Cav]

4 hours ago, Stebie9173 said:

The page is headed 1st Cavalry Division Supply Column with 12 men on it. 9 have CMT/ prefixes varying from No. CMT/32 to CMT/2747. The other 3 are T/ prefixes:

 

T/28659 Driver J Evans

T/21420 Driver E W Smith

T/20601 Driver T Townshend

 

All the CMT/ prefixes are listed as Private; the T/ prefixes are Drivers.

 

J Evans entry states; to Theatre of War 13-8-1914; transferred to R.G.A. 11-5-1918, No. 220456.

 

The 1914 Star Roll is dated 24-8-1918, i.e. before war's end.

 

 

The BWM/VM roll shows both units T/28659 Base Details A.S.C. and 220456 R.G.A. (no unit shown). I infer from the "Base Details" part that the transfer happened in France/Flanders (or even elsewhere overseas) rather than in the UK.

 

 

 

Steve.

 

[Cav]

I am so grateful that there are people who are so prepared to give up their time and help. An amazing forum! Thank you.

[Phil Evans]

Thanks for the look up Steve. At least there are some MT men on the page (Special Reservists).

I do have the early diary for something else I'm working on at the moment and will have a re-read.

 

Phil

[Phil Evans]

I did find one entry early on in the diary:

 

7th September 1914

MELUN

No. 2 Section arrived and reported having handed in at BRUNOY 10 horse vehicles.

 

Phil

[Cav]

Many thanks. I have used Ancestry quite a lot and think I have come to a dead end. Your sources are unknown to me but thanks for the efforts on our families behalf. I also have the problem that despite brothers and sisters there is nobody else really researching him. He died in 1930 and had moved fromWolverhampton to Ellesmere Port to follow his trade as an Iron worker.

Thank you

 

 

[Stebie9173]

Here is the search "index" page on ANcestry for the War Diary (WO 95/1107) for the 1st Cavalry Division Supply Column.

 

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=UKWarDiariesWWI&gss=sfs28_ms_db&new=1&rank=1&msT=1&MS_AdvCB=1&gskw=1107&gskw_x=1&MSAV=2&uidh=5k3&ti=5538

 

 

Steve.

[Cav]

On 17 November 2016 at 21:37, KevinBattle said:

Now that Dai has established you know you have the correct details, we can try and piece together something about his Army service. 

Hopefully you'll have (or will) developed some family background, parents, siblings etc etc from 1891/1901/1911 Census returns so you can provide names and Addresses that may help others crack into his story.

 

You'll probably have worked out that his initial enlistment was with the Army Service Corps and that the "T" prefix denotes a Horse Transport driver.

That makes me believe he had a good knowledge of horses, probably used to driving them as a carter or wagon driver of some type.

For what it is worth, there is one death of a man with a close Service number, but obviously just because this chap was in a specific unit is no guarantee that he knew or was in anyway involved with your grand father, except near him in the Recruiting Office queue. That may be the nearest they were!

HOWORTH, R. Rank: Driver. Service No: T/28652. Date of Death: 07/09/1915. Age: 32.
Regiment/Service: Army Service Corps 5th Res. Park 
Grave Reference: Plot B. Row 1. Grave 11. Cemetery: CALAIS SOUTHERN CEMETERY.

 

Unfortunately, no Additional Information details about address or family, so just for general information.

 

The Army Service Corps were tasked with ensuring the delivery of EVERYTHING needed at the Front.

At some stage it looks as if grandpa was transferred into the Divisional Supply Column of the RGA and would therefore have been primarily involved in ensuring ammunition and all other equipment reached whichever Batteries they supported.

 

As you'll realise that demanded a huge number of men to keep the supplies coming and his renumbering doesn't seem to help as the only near number was a Bombardier who died shortly after the Armistice in a London anti aircraft unit, so again, not likely to have any helpful connection.

 

Welcome aboard and Good Luck!

 

Do you know if there are any anecdotes, family stories, letters, how he met his wife (if post War) photographs of him in uniform or on location (too much to hope a photo with the pyramids in the background for example!) or even what he did after the War, carry on as a horseman or he may have changed to driving mechanised vehicles, so he may have bbeen traine in the Army to drive lorries etc...

 

Whatever else you can dredge up may ne the essential clue for others to help you.

Thank you. I have followed the link to Ancestry which will give me hours of reading. So exciting and as usual greatly appreciated.

37 minutes ago, Stebie9173 said:

Here is the search "index" page on ANcestry for the War Diary (WO 95/1107) for the 1st Cavalry Division Supply Column.

 

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=UKWarDiariesWWI&gss=sfs28_ms_db&new=1&rank=1&msT=1&MS_AdvCB=1&gskw=1107&gskw_x=1&MSAV=2&uidh=5k3&ti=5538

 

 

Steve.

Thanks so much. Hours of interesting reading. So pleased

 

[Cav]

I notice that from the records and date of entry to theatre of war that my grandad is likely to have crossed to France on SS Mokta. Has anybody had luck in finding an image of it. I spent a while trawling through information but sadly without success.

Edited 19 November , 2016 by Cav

[kenf48]

I believe he was a reservist when war was declared, which explains why he was in France in August.

 

Richard Howarth referred to in post 6 enlisted January 1910 This was a short service enlistment for the RE and ASC, 2 years with the colours, 10 years on Reserve. Pte Howarth was mobilised on the 6th August 1914; as was T/28657 Paine and T/28658 Trotter.

T/28661 Aspinall enlisted 7 January 1910, same terms of service.

 

As he was serving in 1911 that's why you can't find him withi his family.

 

Based on surviving records he was probably compulsorily transferred to the RGA on or around 1st April 1918, probably a downgrading in his medical category.

 

Also posted on the other thread last week.

 

Ken

 

 

 

 

[ss002d6252]

The only Ellesmere death I can see for a John Evans in 1930 was aged 70 - this would make him born in 1860. If this is him then an enlistment in 1910 would be quite late in life for him (even for special enlistments of 2 & 10)

 

Craig

Edited 9 December , 2016 by ss002d6252

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

7 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

The only Ellesmere death I can see for a John Evans in 1930 as aged 70

That would make him 54 in 1914.

 

Ah! Hang on Craig. Ellesmere, and Ellesmere Port are two different places, miles apart.

We need to find the reg district for Ellesmere Port.

 

Cav,

Do you know his date of birth?

Is it your uncle you're doing the research for? Does he know?

 

 

[ss002d6252]

2 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

That would make him 54 in 1914.

 

Ah! Hang on Craig. Ellesmere, and Ellesmere Port are two different places, miles apart.

We need to find the reg district for Ellesmere Port.

 

Cav,

Do you know his date of birth?

Is it your uncle you're doing the research for? Does he know?

 

 

Ah well (I looked at the registration district) - I shall keep looking ! Any ideas which registration district it falls under ?

Craig

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Wirral in 1930

 

https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/wirral.html

 

Surname	First name(s)	Age	District	Vol	Page
Deaths Jun 1930   (>99%)
Evans	John	41	Wirral	8a	501

Edited 9 December , 2016 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[ss002d6252]

Found it - it was one of three possible areas. TheChester & Ellesmere Port registration district was formed from Chester, West Cheshire, and Wirral registration district. Any idea which one would be the right one ?

https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/chester and ellesmere port.html

 

Crossed with Dai's response
 

Craig

Edited 9 December , 2016 by ss002d6252

[ss002d6252]

2 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Wirral in 1930

 

https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/wirral.html

 

Surname	First name(s)	Age	District	Vol	Page
Deaths Jun 1930   (>99%)
Evans	John	41	Wirral	8a	501

Thanks Dai, An enlistment at age 21 looks far more likely

Craig

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

10 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

Thanks Dai, An enlistment at age 21 looks far more likely

Craig

Yes, I think so.