PhilB Posted 29 October , 2016 Share Posted 29 October , 2016 Nice to find a well known personality with an interesting service history and Donald Crisp (George William Crisp 1882-1974) has a particularly varied record. Oxford educated, he served as a trooper in the 8th Hussars in the Boer War, Army Intelligence in WW1 (Act Capt, 1/23rd London Regt) and rose to rank of colonel in the US Army Reserve in WW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 29 October , 2016 Share Posted 29 October , 2016 Militarily, I'd say that's a bit of a downward career progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 29 October , 2016 Share Posted 29 October , 2016 (edited) IMDB profile On the left, of course, is Gary Cooper, who portrayed Sergeant York - and also Major Thorn in They Came to Cordura (" An army major, himself guilty of cowardice, is asked to recommended soldiers for the Congressional Medal of Honor during the Mexican Border Incursion of 1916.") Moonraker Edited 29 October , 2016 by Moonraker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Maria Posted 29 October , 2016 Share Posted 29 October , 2016 It's also nice to see that , unlike some, he managed to return home from Hollywood to do his bit in WW1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 29 October , 2016 Share Posted 29 October , 2016 " Army Intelligence in WW1 (Act Capt, 1/23rd London Regt) " Be interesting to know a bit more about his war service. (Don't want to take this thread off-topic, but he did have a certain dignified presence in a couple of 1950s Westerns that I've seen.) Moonraker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin W Taylor Posted 29 October , 2016 Share Posted 29 October , 2016 Moonraker I'm not sure if there'd be any mention of his activities in here - http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C686750 - if you have a moment next time you're at Kew. Regards Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 29 October , 2016 Author Share Posted 29 October , 2016 It would, indeed, be interesting to know what "worked in Army Intelligence" involved for him, or any other subaltern. I wasn't able to find a photo of him in WW1 uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 29 October , 2016 Share Posted 29 October , 2016 (edited) The Intelligence Corps embraced a range of roles and talents. National Archives summary download Ah! Someone has kindly done some research in to his military activities: See here There was, of course, a tendency for "Hollywood" to greatly embroider the CVs of its members. Moonraker Edited 29 October , 2016 by Moonraker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 29 October , 2016 Author Share Posted 29 October , 2016 Thanks, M. Wouldn't he have worn any Boer War or WW1 ribbons on the US uniform shown above? Or don't US regulations allow that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin W Taylor Posted 30 October , 2016 Share Posted 30 October , 2016 The military career summary at Moonraker's link does not authoritatively connect Donald and G W Crisp but I can find no trace of a Donald Crisp in the Artists' Rifles published rolls unlike G W Crisp. The list of awards mentions that the MC citation was for 22 Aug 18 at Happy Valley on the Somme and he is included on the roll of awards in the 47th Division History. I presume that whilst he might have been engaged in 'Intelligence Duties' he was doing so at battalion or brigade level rather than something more 'exotic'. Regards Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 30 October , 2016 Author Share Posted 30 October , 2016 But would he wear his MC and campaign ribbons on a US Army Reserve colonel's uniform? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 30 October , 2016 Share Posted 30 October , 2016 I suspect that he might have needed to get authorisation to have done so. Wikipedia Inconclusive I know, and I realise there is a distinction between a medal being awarded to a service person of another nation and someone who has been awarded his country's medals subsequently changing nationalities. Moonraker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 30 October , 2016 Author Share Posted 30 October , 2016 AS you say, inconclusive, but, come to think of it, I can`t recall seeing a photo of a man in US uniform with British ribbons.(Or Donald Crisp in WW1 uniform!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loader Posted 31 October , 2016 Share Posted 31 October , 2016 I saw a book some yrs back that had some details & interviews with WW1 Vets of the US Army. This man was awarded a MM in WW1 as his unit served with the BEF. In WW2 he was now a Col I think & he wore his ribbons & his MM was clearly visible. That didn't come out quite right. He was in US Army in WW1, either 27th or another divn that was serving alongside the BEF in Flanders. So it was done but nor sure of the regs that govenred it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 31 October , 2016 Author Share Posted 31 October , 2016 Your man was serving in the US Army when the MM was awarded, so somewhat different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westkent78 Posted 31 October , 2016 Share Posted 31 October , 2016 Just found out about this Hollywood link last week too. Here's his full citation: Date of Recommendation. 27th August 1918. "For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty during the operations near HAPPY VALLEY, N. of BRAY-SUR-SOMME on 22nd August 1918. Throughout these operations he showed the most marked ability, not only in carrying out his normal duties but also in dealing efficiently with unexpected situations, which occurred at times when immediate action was very essential and when it was impossible to refer to his Commanding Officer. When the enemy had successfully counterattacked a part of the line LIEUT CRISP spent three hours in reorganizing the survivors of the Battalion in the second line. This reorganization was carried out under the most intense machine gun fire and its success was chiefly due to his efforts. The ability, coolness and total disregard of personal safety displayed by LT CRISP and his quick appreciation of the situations were of the highest possible order. His bearing and personal example had the greatest effect on the whole Battalion." He disembarked in France 13/01/1917 and joined 1/23rd on 29/01/1917, and was still with the Battalion on demobilization. He commanded B Company in Jan 1918 when the commander went on leave and was Adjutant at least until just after the Happy Valley operation (Perhaps the "Intelligence Work"?) becoming C.O. of C Company for a week until early Sept 1918. He went sick to Hospital in Dec 1918, returning in early Jan 1919, and left for demobilization 31st Mar 1919. Wish I'd know of the link this summer as I'd have moved him up the priority list and pulled his file whilst visiting the NA. Best regards, Matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loader Posted 31 October , 2016 Share Posted 31 October , 2016 Interesting to read this. He always seemed to portray the kindly doctor or minister or grandfather in films. But I did see a silent film where he was a brute & total villan who tried or did kill a young woman. It was certainly out of character for him but he was much younger then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 31 October , 2016 Share Posted 31 October , 2016 On 10/29/2016 at 23:25, PhilB said: don't US regulations allow that? Most countries, including the UK, have special reg.s re the wearing of foreign decorations with their uniform BLM got around this problem by wearing his (US) Legion of Merit ribbon on his pullover https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/92/90/e0/9290e07d67c0a24bf5dc6db1da29b6e3.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 31 October , 2016 Author Share Posted 31 October , 2016 https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=TciLBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA4&lpg=PA4&dq="george+william+crisp"&source=bl&ots=7k4OSDTACn&sig=jHBP4hd_wBJMNQ9LiMhK1TM2j38&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwie4tjA5IXQAhVlLMAKHbhFD-EQ6AEIWDAQ#v=onepage&q="george william crisp"&f=false This piece seems to cast doubt on his whole British service. I`m coming around to the conclusion that the MC winner was probably a different man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin W Taylor Posted 31 October , 2016 Share Posted 31 October , 2016 To confuse things further there was a G H Crisp (Gordon Horatio) who was a second lieutenant in early 1918 with 23rd Londons and who was captured either in March (ICRC papers) or April (war diary) 1918. I had presumed from the surname and regimental connection that the two were related but no obvious connections as yet. He's recorded as G Crisp in the war diary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 31 October , 2016 Share Posted 31 October , 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, westkent78 said: Wish I'd know of the link this summer as I'd have moved him up the priority list and pulled his file whilst visiting the NA. Best regards, Matthew Having read Phil's latest post, I suspect several more of us wish you had! Hopefully someone will put it on their list to view next time they visit Kew! Crisp's IMDB profile (see link in my post 3) lists 10 films released in 1915 and 1916 and in which he appeared, but then there's a gap until 1919. I think that in those days films were released to cinemas very soon after completion. As I imply in post 8, Hollywood publicists were very imaginative when it came to describing the lives and achievements of film stars. Moonraker Edited 31 October , 2016 by Moonraker extra info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 31 October , 2016 Author Share Posted 31 October , 2016 tcm.com lists him as director in 8 films in 1918! 33. Believe Me Xantippe (1918) as Director 34. The House of Silence (1918) as Director 35. The Firefly of France (1918) as Director 36. Jules of the Strong Heart (1918) as Director 37. Rimrock Jones (1918) as Director 38. The Goat (1918) as Director A stunt double does not receive the credit for his stunts. 39. Less Than Kin (1918) as Director 40. The Way of a Man with a Maid (1918) as Director Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 1 November , 2016 Share Posted 1 November , 2016 (edited) Curiouser and curiouser! The photo in Phil's opening thread was taken at the OSCAR ceremony on February 26, 1942, just two months after Pearl Harbour and the States' entry into WWII. Crisp had become a US citizen in 1930, and I suppose he could have joined the Reserve in peace time, but with his busy film career ... Googling leads to other photos of the same ceremony, though none appears to show any badges of rank. It may be that one of us can identify some of his medal ribbons? Even allowing for the United States' generosity with medals, these must surely relate to prewar service? BTW, Cooper was receiving his OSCAR for "Sergeant York", Crisp for directing "Runaway Bride", starring Mary Astor (on his right). The other dame lady is Joan Fontaine. Youtube clip of ceremony Youtube tribute to Crisp Crisp acted in eight films in 1942-45, which can't have left him much time for military service, though having been born in 1882 any activity must have been sedentary, including the patriotic fund-raising mentioned in the link in Phil's post 19? And with Gale Sondergaard too! His promotion to full colonel must have been something of a PR exercise? How easy is it to access the service files of American soldiers of the 1930s and 1940s? Moonraker Edited 1 November , 2016 by Moonraker to include a photo of Gale Sondegaard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 1 November , 2016 Share Posted 1 November , 2016 (edited) According to another reference book he was on the staff of General Pershing during WWI and served with the OSS in WWII. This link provides a download that suggests that Crisp joined the Reserve in 1942. Another photo of him in Army Reserve uniform. To keep this thread closer to WWI: he was in The Dawn Patrol one of the best feature films about aviation in the Great War Moonraker Edited 1 November , 2016 by Moonraker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMarsdin Posted 1 November , 2016 Share Posted 1 November , 2016 Mike (Skipman) lives in Aberfeldy, perhaps he might be able to find something out ? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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