Butte de Warlencourt

[DCLI]

I took this photo about 20 years ago, when there was a wooden cross on top of the Butte and lots a live/dud shells lying around. Notice the trench to the right of the Butte - the reason I took the pic. I haven't found it on any maps yet. Thought you might like to see it.

regards to all

[andigger]

Were there really that many shells still lying around? I would have assumed the vast majority which were near or on the surface would have been removed, even before WWII. Obviously shells and other items are still being dug up, but lying on the surface surprises me a bit.

Great pic though.... sometimes it is nice to compare images over the years.

Andy

[Robert Dunlop]

I must admit that the Butte was much smaller than I thought it would be when I first saw it. Reading about the difficulties in trying to capture it made it seem much bigger somehow. Thanks for the photo.

Robert

[Paul Reed]

Were there really that many shells still lying around? I would have assumed the vast majority which were near or on the surface would have been removed, even before WWII. Obviously shells and other items are still being dug up, but lying on the surface surprises me a bit.

Shell piles like this are not the result of shells left lying on the surface since 1918, but are shells un-earthed by farmers during ploughing. Thousands are found each year on the Somme along, even to this day. There is a huge pile of them a few hundred yards from my house at Courcelette, and I know of at least half a dozen shells that are still lying in the undergrowth, the same place, where I first saw them 25 years ago!

[burlington]

Shell piles like this are not the result of shells left lying on the surface since 1918, but are shells un-earthed by farmers during ploughing. Thousands are found each year on the Somme along, even to this day. There is a huge pile of them a few hundred yards from my house at Courcelette

Do you sleep OK at nights?

[PhilB]

It doesn`t look like the Butte I recall, DCLI. Was it taken from the top?

I found the picture on google. It`s dated Nov 16. Does it tie in? Phil B

[andigger]

Shell piles like this are not the result of shells left lying on the surface since 1918, but are shells un-earthed by farmers during ploughing.

Thats what I thought. When I read DCLI's post it sounded like they were still there on the surface from 1918. Andy

[DCLI]

Pic was taken from the main road. the one in the drawing to Sars. I agree the butte looks quite small, but it was fairly steep to climb and apart from the shels (heaped not loose), there was lots of shredded corrugated iron sticking out of the ground - probably still there. If I can digitise those pics I will post them too.

Regards

[chrislock]

We are not immune to this stuff in Ypres either! My next door neighbor is building an extension to his kitchen. 2 weeks ago, the workmen dug up a shell in his garden! Our dividing garden fence has got Old barbed wire pickets in places! The neighbors dont seem to raise an eyebrow! Wonder what the authorities in Blighty would make of these finds and discoveries, probably quaranteen the whole town!

[PhilB]

I can see it now! I didn`t realise that the trees were on the Butte. Here`s a shot from Giles` book "The Somme, then & now". It`s dated 1919 and could be from the same spot. Phil B

[Mat McLachlan]

Great shot DCLI. That trench is remarkably well-defined. I've never spent much time at the Butte but I've been reading more about it recently and will definitely check it out further next time I'm on the Somme. I'm interested to see your other pics if you can post them.

Cheers,

Mat

[burlington]

For those who have not seen it yet, here is a pic of the WFA Memorial on top of the Butte.

[HIGHSPEN]

They are one and the same. My Uncle George died there 5/6th Nov.1916

Better to read the acompanyment to the photo in the book to appreciate the horrors of the place.Am having trouble attaching it.

And here is the accompanying letter to the drawing from Lt.Col Bradford(at 25,I believe he was the youngest of that age to achieve that position) SAME TROUBLE!!

A cross erected on the site by survivors of the 9th Btn DLI is in Durham Cathedral,.

[DCLI]

I don't have the equipment to convert slides to digital, I can get it done but it may take a few days. I re-photographed this pic via one of those small backlit view thingies. I wonder if all this stuff is still there?

regards

[Mark A]

Paul (or anyone!),

What is the Butte exactly geographically speaking? A hill? A burial mound?

I agree it does seem smaller when you get to it but I visited it with a friend of mine who is in a commando artillery unit and he said he could see very well why it was so fought over and why the Germans just "wouldn't give it up."

And by the way, there were plenty of old shells dotted around there when I was there last year!

Mark

[Martin Brown]

What is the Butte exactly geographically speaking? A hill? A burial mound?

The Butte is porbably a large prehistoric burial mound, although no one knows for certain as there has been no excavation. However it does fit a monument type that one gets across Europe. These are bigger mounds than the normal barrows and include Duggleby Howe in Yorkshire, the Butte and the mounds at Vix in Burgundy, where the rich elite burials have been found. It's dominant position in the landscape underlines this interpretation as that is also common in such mounds.

I'd love to know what the German engineers found during their tunneling operations.

The Butte certainly attracted the attention of archaeologist Mortimer Wheeler. He was an artillery officer there and in his book "Still Digging" he records how he and his troop recovered some German guns from the batlefield and how all the time he could feel the hill lowering over him. He says that after the war he found OGS Crawford (ex RE & RFC) showing a picture of the Butte to a student as an exercise in air photo interpretation. He goes on to say that of all the archaeological sites he'd seen this was one he never felt a desire to revisit.

From a monument management perspective I'd recommend a fair bit of scrub clearance from it.

[brindlerp]

From Brad Chappell's site http://www.capefam.freeserve.co.uk/trench.htm which appears to be offline.

[HIGHSPEN]

I tried(and failed) previously to upload some notes regarding the photo posted on Dec.7th.

Here are extracts from the same "page":-

When the Somme offensive bogged down in the appalling mud of the area bisected by the Bapaume road - - -stretching into the distance--- -

On the left can be seen part of the ruins of Le Sars-- - -over to the right- -is the hump of the hated Butte de Warlencourt - - -

""Stumbling across the old battlefield,first through horse-linesand dumps,then through dreary wastes of clay pitted with shell-holes,full of mud,strewn with the litter of old equipment and shell splinters,and smelling vilely of old corpses,one came to a wide swampy valley- - - - - - -

there rose out of the mud a strange conical mound of white chalk- - - -

while the artilley of both armies- - strafing anyone who moved- - - -

- - -one dared not move for fear of the enemy machine-guns on the Butte- --

- --- That ghastly hill became fabulous- - -shone white at night-- -like an ogre in a fairy tale - - -peering in trenches where you thought you wre safe- - - it haunted your dreams- -

TWENTY -FOUR HOURS IN THE TRENCHES BEFORE THE BUTTE FINISHED A

MAN OFF"".

I think that tells it all and it`s importance to the Germans.

That is where my Uncle George lost his life and I believe my father who survived may have been with him but like so many others.I regret not quizzing him more about his experiences.

THAT IS WHY THIS FORUM IS SO MAGNIFICENT.

[Mark A]

Martin,

Thanks for the reply, very interesting. Like you, I wonder what the Germans found when they bore down into the chalk... also, I agree it could do with a bit of pruning back but it's all time and money I suppose.

M