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19 Casualty Clearing Station


MarkTrotter
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My Great Grandfather was wounded at Arras on 9/08/17. He was taken to 19 CCS, where he died the following day. He is buried at Duisans British Cemetery Etrun. I believe that 19 CCS would be close to the cemetery. I am keen to find the exact location of the CCS so I can visit that location, together with the cemetery.

Thanks in anticipation, regards Mark

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There were based at Agnez-lès-Duisans which is not far from Etrun. The Cemetery is half way between the two.

 

I don't have the diary for 1917.

There are two diaries (£3.45 each) that may show where they were in more detail, one when they moved from Beauval in Dec 1916 and then another diary for 1917.  Depends when they were ordered to move and if they sent out parties to find a decent location and when they shut down in Beavaul. Difficult to advise which diary might give a more precise location, it could be both, neither or just one.

 

It doesn't appear that they took over the site of a former CCS.

TEW

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Tew, thanks very much. I now have the war diary for 1917. It has the location as both Duisans and Agnes les Duisans. All very confusing. Perhaps we will never know exactly. Many thanks for your help, regards Mark.

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Quite possibly the longer name is intended. I live (when at home) near what is officially Castle Cary, but everyone in the area calls it Cary.

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There may be other ways to tightened down a better location. I found this snippet in 'Medical History of the War' plus some other things I can look at later in the week.

 

TEW

 

Clipboard01.jpg

 

 

 

 

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A quick look at a later map which shows the above mentioned railway and siding shows a large shaded area which may be the location for the group of CCSs in April 1917 (19, 41 & 8 CCS). It is south of the Arras- St Pol Road and has a siding. I also think the Cemetery is within the shaded area or between the siding and the shaded area on the east side.

TEW

 

Sorry, the Cemetery is on the NE corner of the shaded area in the triangle formed by it and the road to the NW

Clipboard02.jpg

Edited by TEW
Amendment
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Good spots, Tew!

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Tew, thanks so much. This is fantastic information. I can now visit both sites, confident that I am in the right location. Non of our family has been to visit his grave, as we knew so little about his military service. Once again, thanks very much. Regards Mark.

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I'll still check another couple of leads I saw in 'Medical History' and check the DMS diary. Something may specify where 19CCS was within that shaded area.

 

TEW

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  • 3 weeks later...

I need help!  I am trying to figure out which CCSs the NZEF used - i can't find any ofo them attached to the Division.  Did they use the Australian CCSs under the auspices of II ANZAC corp, or the BEF CCS?  Help!  I cant finish my NZEF evacuation chain graphic without understanding this specific link in the chain.  I have everything else identified from Field ambulances through HOspital ships, but this one has me stumped.

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There are a number of NZ related threads on forum that cover the individual's service/casualty record.

 

You would need to look through as many posts as possible to identify which CCSs a man was admitted to. I can add that some NZ troops ended up in Canadian CCSs, I'm sure I've seen records of NZ, Australians, Canadians, Chinese, Indians, Portuguese all being treated in British Run CCSs.

 

Follow this link for Kiwis & Casualty Clearing Stations on forum.

 

And this for NZRB & Casualty Clearing Stations on forum

 

And this for Zealand & Casualty Clearing Station on forum - 177 hits

 

Lot of reading & checking!

 

TEW

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Thanks,  I don't need to find a specific person, but just generally an answer as to what CCSs were used on the Western Front, so I will look through your threads that you so kindly provided tome.  In reading  the history of the NZMC, it appears that the CO of the medical corps asked for a NZ owned ccs during the evac of Gallipoli and the formulation of the NZD, but was turned down, and every other reference I see in this history is to either an Australian or BEF CCS, so I think my original assumption that NZEF itself never established its own CCSs but used others available to its forces under the control of the 2nd Army/II ANZAC Corps - but I will confirm by reading the links.  

 

I did find the answer to ANZAC and the New Zealand and australian division while they were in the Balkans...

 

Alison

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Alison,

Another way to look at it is to find the location of the BEF CCSs and then check the numbers of NZ troops buried in the adjacent cemetery.

 

So for Heilly Station Cemetery, Mericourt-L'abbe which was used by the Grovetown/Heilly group of BEF CCS shows 118 NZ troops buried there in Sept-Oct 1916.

 

They were presumably all admitted to either 36, 34, 48 or 55 CCS. If you look at man No. 1 on CWGC list 9/1785 Robert Brown and then check his Archway Record you can see he was admitted to 36CCS, see image 6.

 

TEW

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What a clever idea!  Thanks Old Sweats!

 

Thanks,  I don't need to find a specific person, but just generally an answer as to what CCSs were used on the Western Front, so I will look through your threads that you so kindly provided tome.  In reading  the history of the NZMC, it appears that the CO of the medical corps asked for a NZ owned ccs during the evac of Gallipoli and the formulation of the NZD, but was turned down, and every other reference I see in this history is to either an Australian or BEF CCS, so I think my original assumption that NZEF itself never established its own CCSs but used others available to its forces under the control of the 2nd Army/II ANZAC Corps - but I will confirm by reading the links.  

 

I did find the answer to ANZAC and the New Zealand and australian division while they were in the Balkans...

 

Alison

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My great uncle also died  at CCS #19, but in August 1918 when they were at Frevent.  He is buried at Ligny Sur Canche.  Does anyone have a map showing the actual location of the CCS?

 

Thanks,

Hazel C..

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I guess you've looked at 19CCS dairy? It's not much help, they arrived at Frevent 29/3/1918 and set up on the Frevent - Hesdin Road just beyond site of 43 CCS. This would be to the West of Frevent. Map sheet would be 51C for Frevent but it's right on the western edge so the CCS would be on the next sheet over to the west which MacMaster don't have nor do NLS.

 

The only hope is that a location/map is given in the 3rd Army DMS diary. Can't see how they can give a map ref if there is no map, maybe they have their own.

 

I can check that tomorrow. The only alternative is to check the dairies for the other CCSs that were there during the war (20, 34, 43) to see if they hint at precise locations or have a map, that's assuming 19 occupied the same site. Ditto for the corresponding DMS in command of those CCSs.

TEW

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Hazel,

 

I've looked at the diary for the 3rd Army DMS and a location is not given.

 

I tried the other CCSs (20,34 & 43) based in Frevent. The diary for 19CCS 29/3/1918 says found suitable one [site] on Frevent to Hesdin road just beyond 43CCS.

 

Diary for 43CCS 27/3/1918 says arrived in the Factory Siding, 300 yards below the site at 7pm. New site is an old cavalry camp.

 

So, 43CCS was 300 yards north of Factory Siding and 19CCS was just beyond that!

 

No joy on maps of the area I'm afraid, perhaps someone else will know where Factory Siding was or the old cavalry camp.

 

TEW

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On 11/15/2016 at 09:57, TEW said:

Hazel,

 

I've looked at the diary for the 3rd Army DMS and a location is not given.

 

I tried the other CCSs (20,34 & 43) based in Frevent. The diary for 19CCS 29/3/1918 says found suitable one [site] on Frevent to Hesdin road just beyond 43CCS.

 

Diary for 43CCS 27/3/1918 says arrived in the Factory Siding, 300 yards below the site at 7pm. New site is an old cavalry camp.

 

So, 43CCS was 300 yards north of Factory Siding and 19CCS was just beyond that!

 

No joy on maps of the area I'm afraid, perhaps someone else will know where Factory Siding was or the old cavalry camp.

 

TEW

Thank you so much for taking the trouble to check this for me.  Sorry to have taken so long to respond but my life is going in ten directions at once at the moment and I am not great with the way the Forum works these days.  Will try to be diligent!  

The reason I asked, is that I am thinking about going to Ligny at the end of April or early May as no one from the family has ever visited my great uncle's grave. I would like to do it for my grandmother's sake. Am going to Scotland anyway for a wedding, and thought of making a visit to the Arras and Ypres areas.  I just wondered when I saw CCS#19 if there was any information out there about it.  I do have a letter written to my Great Grandmother from the nursing sister (Flower) who was with my great uncle when he died.

 

Thanks again,

Hazel C.

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