damien7 Posted 6 December , 2004 Share Posted 6 December , 2004 I have a Victory Medal to 9037 Frank Taylor King's. The CWGC site lists him as PTE Fred Bates (served as Taylor) I come across similar a few times, anyone know why some soldiers served under a alias? Damien http://www.cwgc.org/cwgcinternet/casualty_...casualty=261451 http://www.cwgc.org/cwgcinternet/casualty_...casualty=262184 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 6 December , 2004 Share Posted 6 December , 2004 Damien There were whole range of reasons - often they were trying to disguise their past. They could be trying to hide from marital problems, paternity issues, the law, bankrupcy, former military service, a criminal record. Also they could be trying to hide their enlistment from the family. Another frequent reason was to avoid having an 'enemy' sounding name or one that might be ridiculed in barracks! Certain names are difficult to pronounce and therefore were altered or often changed to disguise one's background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOMMESOLDIER Posted 6 December , 2004 Share Posted 6 December , 2004 Hi Damien, There were many reasons why men served under alias's. The more common ones would have been:- An underage lad who didn't want his parents to trace him might change his name. Quite a few I have heard of changed their surnames if they thought they sounded too German ! Also if someone was trying too escape the law he could change his name. There would have been many varients to these examples, and probably alot of diverse reasons too ! Cheers Tim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damien7 Posted 6 December , 2004 Author Share Posted 6 December , 2004 Thanks for the info, appreciate it. Why he used a alias will remain a mystery. Damien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 6 December , 2004 Share Posted 6 December , 2004 Why he used a alias will remain a mystery. Don't give up just yet. See if his service papers still exist at the National Archives. Or if there was anything in his local newspaper reporting his death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frillidan Posted 6 December , 2004 Share Posted 6 December , 2004 So it's to be assumed that, in order to enlist, men didn't necessarily need any "official" forms of identification? I actually have a related question: it seems to me that the British Army was rather careless when it came to what we today would call "keeping roll". In other words, they didn't appear to have paperwork that would list all the members of a unit to keep track of them. Likewise, when a low-ranking officer was sent from a training camp to France, it seems they were given papers that they would show to transport officers and such, but the transport officers themselves would not have a list of, say, which officers to expect. Can anyone tell me if this is basically correct, or is there more to the paperwork than that? I read one memoir (I think it was Bruce Bairnsfather's "Bullets and Billets") wherein the Lieutenant ends up at a base in France at which he wasn't even supposed to end up...and yet, "the powers that be" evidently knew where to telegraph when they wanted to find him and send him to the front. Any info on this would be great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 6 December , 2004 Share Posted 6 December , 2004 Why he used a alias will remain a mystery. Don't give up just yet. See if his service papers still exist at the National Archives. Or if there was anything in his local newspaper reporting his death. And remember to check both Taylor and Bates! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 6 December , 2004 Share Posted 6 December , 2004 So it's to be assumed that, in order to enlist, men didn't necessarily need any "official" forms of identification? I actually have a related question: it seems to me that the British Army was rather careless when it came to what we today would call "keeping roll". In other words, they didn't appear to have paperwork that would list all the members of a unit to keep track of them. Likewise, when a low-ranking officer was sent from a training camp to France, it seems they were given papers that they would show to transport officers and such, but the transport officers themselves would not have a list of, say, which officers to expect. Can anyone tell me if this is basically correct, or is there more to the paperwork than that? I read one memoir (I think it was Bruce Bairnsfather's "Bullets and Billets") wherein the Lieutenant ends up at a base in France at which he wasn't even supposed to end up...and yet, "the powers that be" evidently knew where to telegraph when they wanted to find him and send him to the front. Any info on this would be great! Rolls were kept. If you look at the war diary of the 7th East Surrey Regt, the last entry before the Bn was disbanded in early 1918 is a roll of all men who served with the Bn from its entry into France. You will also find rolls in some RFA war diaries and others at the beginning or end of a year. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Lynott Posted 6 December , 2004 Share Posted 6 December , 2004 Another reason could be that their name could have been a bit Germanic sounding. Didn't the royal family change their name during the war from Saxe-Coburg to the more user friendly Windsor at the time when anything Germanic was having its windows put in? One of the lads on our local memorial served as Goff instead of his real name of Gorfankl when he was recalled in 1914. His two brothers were called Max and Myer which maybe another indication of his ancestry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest webbhead Posted 6 December , 2004 Share Posted 6 December , 2004 One famous alias--and this pertains to the 'disguising German background' reason--is Ford Madox Ford, the adoped name of Ford Madox Hueffler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud Trevor Posted 7 December , 2004 Share Posted 7 December , 2004 It wasn't just soldiers that felt the need to change their name. I have a couple of Empire and Christmas day gift certificates for 1915 made out to Horace Schmidt. However, by the time he got his school good conduct certificate in 1916 he was Harold Smith. Feelings must have calmed a little by 1922, because his scripture certificate is made out to Horace Schmidt once again. Spud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frillidan Posted 7 December , 2004 Share Posted 7 December , 2004 Hey, I never knew that--interesting! But he chose to name himself "Ford" twice?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 7 December , 2004 Share Posted 7 December , 2004 Damien It is interesting that in your first post the Commonwealth War Graves have entries under both names. When making a listing on Excel it has always puzzled me what to do about these aliases. If you put the alias in a separate field or in notes, the numbers of soldiers can be totalled but then both names don't come up in an alphabetical order print out. Your soldier does not seem to fit into the German sounding names or names which might lead to ridicule, category. In another thread, someone suggested that another reason for an alias might be if a soldier wanted to turn up and enlist in another regiment. Seems to defeat the object if the administrative section knew about the alias. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Half-pint Posted 7 December , 2004 Share Posted 7 December , 2004 We have the instance of one of Grandma Dunford's brothers (purportedly) having stolen some money from maternal Grandad's business, then running away, never to be heard from again. The young man changed his surname to that of the Grandad, married a young lady at Southampton, and was killed in action in Germany. The family never knew. :-( Alison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 9 November , 2011 Share Posted 9 November , 2011 One famous alias--and this pertains to the 'disguising German background' reason--is Ford Madox Ford, the adoped name of Ford Madox Hueffler. He only adopted the name Ford post-war (June 1919... after he had left the army). He served as Hueffer (no 'l') from 1915 to 1919 but had attracted unwanted attention from MI5 during his service due to his ancestry. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Tucker Posted 9 November , 2011 Share Posted 9 November , 2011 Also seen examples of soldiers rejected more than once for service in one Regiment (usually medical) trying another under a different assumed name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter and Ellen Posted 9 November , 2011 Share Posted 9 November , 2011 My maternal grandfather fought as Lewis Johnson only to discover, after the war, that he was born as Louis Dart. Had to ask his parents an embarrasing question after the war when he could not supply his Birth Certificate to the Army. His biological parents lived on the farm next door. Another of the family, Daniel Jarvis enlisted at 15 under a false name. It is said that he died in 1915, aged 16, under the alias. A name now lost to the family. Fromelles (Pheasant Wood) Military Cemetery has Meyer, under an alias, dead at age 16. Also, Morley, under an alias, dead at age 47. The two extremes located in the one Cemetery. Regards, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin ss002d6252 Posted 9 November , 2011 Admin Share Posted 9 November , 2011 Another of the family, Daniel Jarvis enlisted at 15 under a false name. It is said that he died in 1915, aged 16, under the alias. A name now lost to the family. Slightly off topic but have you ever tried SDGW to try and find him ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndavidswarbrick Posted 9 November , 2011 Share Posted 9 November , 2011 Not everyone with German names changed them - one of my local war memorials on which I did some work has two brothers listed Augustus Charles [died 17-10-17]and Vernon Charles Eschbacher [died 5-10-18]. Two other brothers also served, but they made it home again. Jacob Eschbacher, their grandfather, had been born in Germany in 1842. Dave Swarbrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter and Ellen Posted 10 November , 2011 Share Posted 10 November , 2011 Slightly off topic but have you ever tried SDGW to try and find him ? Tks for your suggestion. I will be trying to trace him through the Jarvis leg of the family as I remember there was a Family-Tracer in that family. The family member that I met, so many years ago, will have passed away by now but I have the adresses of their children over in Perth, so, I should be able to reconnect and search their records. Regards, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retlaw Posted 10 November , 2011 Share Posted 10 November , 2011 if they thought they sounded too German The following served in the 11th East Lancs. Cheney. Fleicher, Golcher, Gorst, Hulke, Kohn & Peltzer. Retlaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfh249 Posted 11 November , 2011 Share Posted 11 November , 2011 ...Your soldier does not seem to fit into the German sounding names or names which might lead to ridicule, category.... Oh I don't know... Bates? I'm sure the mind of a Tommy could think of a few things... Neil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 16 April , 2014 Share Posted 16 April , 2014 I wonder if German soldiers with British names had the same problems ? khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOSTURM Posted 16 April , 2014 Share Posted 16 April , 2014 My great grandfather joined up as a soldier certainly without the approval of his mother. He also lied about his age saying he was 18 and not his real 21. His attestation papers have him as John Drew, which was his mothers maiden name, whereas his real name was John Leonard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
healdav Posted 17 April , 2014 Share Posted 17 April , 2014 Damien It is interesting that in your first post the Commonwealth War Graves have entries under both names. When making a listing on Excel it has always puzzled me what to do about these aliases. If you put the alias in a separate field or in notes, the numbers of soldiers can be totalled but then both names don't come up in an alphabetical order print out. Your soldier does not seem to fit into the German sounding names or names which might lead to ridicule, category. In another thread, someone suggested that another reason for an alias might be if a soldier wanted to turn up and enlist in another regiment. Seems to defeat the object if the administrative section knew about the alias. Kate I have this same problem with Jews who changed their name in WW2, and also women who, in French/Belgian fashion keep their maiden names and put them after their husband's name i.e. Maggie Jones becomes Maggie Smith Jones. The way I have arranged it is that in Column 1 I put the name under which they were known, and under column 2 their alias, and under column 3 the surname of the husband. Then I can sort by column 1, then 2 and then 3 or whichever way around I need at the time. That way I can get all the Smiths in order of Schmit, Schmitt, Schmidt and so on, then Jones, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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