Alfred Hooley 17th Battalion Manchester Regiment - Dantzig Alley & Thiepval?

[8055Bell]

Hi All,
Alfred Hooley is commemorated at Thiepval http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/793197/HOOLEY,%20ALFRED%20DRAKE
John Hartley's excellent research is here Stockport's War Dead

I've been looking at concentration records for Dantzig Alley and found a HEELY J of 17th Bttn who was subsequently assumed to be a an unknown and wonder if this is the same man.  Albert's father was John Hooley and I wonder if the ID came from an item with John's name on it.  The concentration and grave registration record is next to 30195 Pte W Wright of 18th KLR on CWGC. 
A further inconsistency is the man's regimental number 12683, which belonged to John Wilkinson of the 19th Bttn.  (I need to check if he worked at Barlow & Jones)
I may be barking up the wrong tree, but wonder if anyone has further thoughts on this idea.  Is there any other data that could verify the correct soldier at Dantzig Alley?
Tim

[John_Hartley]

Tim

 

There isnt a J Wilkinson in Barlow & Jones' listing in the City Battalions Book of Honour.

 

I've read the concentration papers and can't think of a way to take this forward. We know that there was an incorrect ID in the concentration report, as no man called Heely served with Manchesters. Annoyingly, there's no indication as to how they came to make the albeit wrong ID. Yours is a good speculation but I can't see how we make it more than speculation.

 

There is the second error in noting 12683 as being this man's service number. As you say, this belonged to John Wilkinson, 19th Mancs - but he'd been dead since 26/5/16 and is buried at Corbie, presumably dying at one of the Clearing Stations there.

Edited 5 October , 2016 by John_Hartley

[8055Bell]

Thanks John,

As John Hooley is consistently recorded as died from wounds, its a little surprising he has no know resting place and a spelling error on a "known" burial would make sense.  Heeley was originally buried at 62C.A.9.8.9 which is the German front line between Talus Bois and the end of the current track down to the old railway embankment.  Many men from 90th Brigade were buried here and I'm checking out any others who Died of Wounds.  It's possible we will have a group that may have been near an advanced dressing station.  This is would have been a very good place for the medics at the bottom of railway valley in one of few positions that would not have been overlooked from Bernafay Wood. 

I'll check out RAMC records when I get the chance.  We may find out grids for the collection points.

 

I agree I'm speculating, but if you have other bright ideas let me know.

Tim

[John_Hartley]

I've sure that I've come across Hooley since I did the research but can't think in what context. Must be something local. I'll let you know if the lightbulb in my head clicks on.

[laughton]

Here are the links to the GRRF and COG-BR so you can see them directly:

 

 

 

Who was at this location? I see 4 names on the Thiepval Memorial with the number sequence 12683.

 

surname	forename	death	rank	regiment	unit	#	memorial
BOTTOM	THOMAS	07-07-16	Private	East Yorkshire Regiment	7th Bn.	'12683'	THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
HOGG	ALFRED CALVERT	01-07-16	Private	York and Lancaster Regiment	"C" Coy. 12th Bn.	'12/683'	THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
MANSHIP	REUBEN	15-09-16	Serjeant	Leicestershire Regiment	1st Bn.	'12683'	THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
STORR	CLAUDE ROBERT	09-09-16	Lance Corporal	Northamptonshire Regiment	1st Bn.	'12683'	THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

 

[John_Hartley]

The trench map shown is spot on for 17th Manchesters' line of attack. Finding a man from 18th KLR in the same area is also spot on, as they were the initial attackers, going over at 7.30 to capture the German front line.

[laughton]

Any possibility of HOGG as the date of death is a match?

 

HOGG

ALFRED CALVERT

01-07-16

Private

York and Lancaster Regiment

"C" Coy. 12th Bn.

'12/683'

THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

[8055Bell]

Thanks both,

The co-ordinates relate to the heart of Vernon Street Cemetery, where many members of 21st, 90th & 55th Brigade were buried after the 1st Day.  55 of 110 casualties were lost to enemy action before concentration to Dantzig Alley.  The area didn't have many burials afterwards, but I'd need to check whether the Thiepval men are possibilities.  The Concentration and Grave Registration are so clear that the casualty is 1st July and 17th Service Battalion Manchester Regiment, I'd not pursued that lead.

Happy New Year

Tim