Unknown German crest.

[GDU]

Hi,

 

This was a WW2 Vet bring back, however I suspect it dates back from an earlier time.

Not much is known about it except the Vet who brought it back (now deceased) believed it to be of some value.

Any info or suggested places to ask would be appreciated.

 

Cheers,

 

Greg.

[AOK4]

It's not German, it's from Wales.

 

Jan

[Magnumbellum]

It is also not a crest, and it is by no means unknown. To be precise, it is the well known badge of the Prince of Wales, three feathers surmounting his motto, in German, Ich Dien (I Serve)..

[squirrel]

From Wiki:

The badge has no connection with the native Princes of Wales.

Its use is generally traced back to Edward, the Black Prince (1330–1376), eldest son and heir apparent of Edward III of England. Edward bore (as an alternative to his differenced royal arms) a shield of Sable, three ostrich feathers argent, described as his "shield for peace": this probably means it was the shield he used for jousting. These arms can be seen several times on his tomb chest in Canterbury Cathedral, alternating with his royal arms.^[2] The prince also used badges of one or more ostrich feathers in a number of other contexts.^[3]

The feathers had first appeared at the marriage of Edward III to Philippa of Hainault, and it is therefore likely that the Black Prince inherited the badge from his mother.^[4] Philippa was descended from the Counts of Hainault, whose eldest son bore the title "Count of Ostrevent", the ostrich (French: autruche, Old French spellings including ostruce) feathers being (perhaps) a heraldic pun on that name.^[5][6][7] Alternatively, the badge may have derived from the Counts of Luxembourg, from whom Philippa was also descended, and who had used the badge of an ostrich.^[5]

 

Edward III occasionally used ostrich feather badges,^[6] as did other members of the royal family in the 14th and 15th centuries. The Black Prince's younger brother, John of Gaunt, used ostrich feathers in several contexts, including on a very similar coat of arms to Edward's "shield for peace", although here the feathers were ermine.^[8][9] Edward's illegitimate son, Sir Roger de Clarendon, bore arms of Or, on a black bend, three ostrich feathers argent;^[10] and his legitimate son, King Richard II, used ostrich feather badges in several colours.^[11]Henry IV used a badge of a single ostrich feather with a scroll entwined around it bearing the motto "Ma sovereyne" or "Sovereygne"; and, of Henry's sons, Henry V used ostrich feathers as a secondary royal badge at various times, Thomas, Duke of Clarence used an ermine ostrich feather labelled; John, Duke of Bedford an ostrich feather with the "Sovereygne" scroll; and Humphrey, Duke of Gloucester an ostrich feather studded with fleurs-de-lis. Similar badges were used by other royal princes.^[12][13]

The first Prince of Wales to use the badge in its modern form (i.e. three white feathers encircled by a coronet, and with the motto Ich dien) was Prince Arthur (1486–1502), eldest son of Henry VII, at the beginning of the 16th century.^[5][14] It was also widely used by Prince Edward, son of Henry VIII and afterwards Edward VI, although he was never formally invested as Prince of Wales.^[15] Feathers continued to be used as lesser royal badges, by Elizabeth I among others, until the end of the century.^[16] Only from the beginning of the 17th century did the badge become exclusively associated with the Prince of Wales.

 

According to a longstanding legend, the Black Prince obtained the badge from the blind King John of Bohemia, against whom he fought at the Battle of Crécy in 1346. After the battle, the prince is said to have gone to the body of the dead king, and taken his helmet with its ostrich feather crest, afterwards incorporating the feathers into his arms, and adopting King John's motto, "Ich dien", as his own. The story first appears in writing in 1376, the year of the Black Prince's death. There is, however, no sound historical basis for it, and no evidence for King John having used either the crest (he actually bore a crest of vultures' wings) or the motto.^[4][5][6]

Since a key factor in the English army's victory at Crécy was the use of Welsh archers, it is also sometimes said to have been Edward's pride in the men of Wales which led him to adopt a symbol alluding to their assistance. The German motto "Ich dien" ("I serve") is a near-homophone for the Welsh phrase "Eich Dyn" meaning "Your Man", which might have helped endear the young Black Prince to the Welsh soldiers in particular. Again, however, there is no historical evidence to support this theory. In 1917, during the First World War, it was rumoured that the motto might be formally changed to "Eich Dyn" to avoid the use of German.^[17]

Edited 21 September , 2016 by squirrel

[GDU]

OK, thanks.

I wonder then where he would have been likely to have got it and why he thought it of value.

He had a reasonable collection of German stuff hence the assumption.

He was knowledgeable in this area and if he thought it valuable perhaps it was for some now lost provenance.

Thanks for your help.

 

GDU.

[trajan]

Perhaps left-over in France Belgium from an earlier time? But what exactly is it - a cushion? A flag?

[Simon127]

Would be interesting to see some of the German items if possible.

 

Simon

[GDU]

All I ended up with was a kriegsmarine Bayonet and a Luftwaffe Belt.

There was a really nice officers map case but I was too slow for that.

[trajan]

Well, those items are not that frequently found so you did well!